[matt@stratford]

Evening all,

It was discussed a while ago about some 330d's been noisy around 1500rpm. Well, mine has been in three times now. 1st time they replaced the injectors and all good for about a month, 2nd time they couldn't find anything wrong and 3rd time they did a software update that cured it for 2 days.

Today my dealer got a BMW tech that doesn't work for the dealer (national tech?) to have a listen. He came back with "nothing wrong, the noise is a trait of the engine". Unfortunately I had to leave the car there as the tech was 1.5 hours late. The service manager who had to tell me the news was expecting my response.

Now before we get the usual "it's a diesel, what do you expect" I brought the car based on how my old e91 330d performed, this was both refined and had decent performance. My current car performs well but sounds awful at 1500 rpm.

My disagreement my BMW that I have is they have developed an engine that is less refined than the previous engine and that they have rectified the fault twice before.

So, what do you think I should do? I have asked to see the dealer principle to take him for a drive to see if he thinks the engine noise is acceptable for a £45k car.

BTW, I do about 700 miles a week so I'm in my car a lot

[Postcab]

I had the same problem. Following advice on here I switched to BP Ultimate Diesel and now the problem's gone and the car 'seems' faster. Apparently BP Ultimate Diesel has the highest Cetane rating in the UK.

I know we shouldn't have to buy special fuel to make the engine perform as it should, but sometimes life is too short...

I suspect the tolerances on this engine are pretty wide and BMW are unlikely to admit they've got a problem with UK fuel.

Do let us know how you get on.

[Ross_T_Boss]

My 335d - presumably, mostly the same engine - is very smooth, refined and most of the time not diesel sounding at all. There's the odd time (mostly when cold) that i get a bit of 'traditional' diesel tractor rattle at low RPMs but only a few seconds then it's gone.

As has been discussed - try a performance diesel. Shell V-Power is my recommendation, it's a synthetic blend and notably smoother and quieter. I put a tank of it in roughly every other week (I do 900 miles a week average, fill up on wednesdays and sundays!).

Personally I'm finding this car is a good place to spend a few hours a day, certainly better than FGW's standard class that I used to endure! It is less insulated quote notably compared to the RS6 i had before or a 5/6/7 series but that's what the HK radio is for

[matt@stratford]

I've been running BP Ultimate for the last 2 tanks. I'm going to try some more to see if it does reduce. The service manager has suggested trying some aditives to see if that helps

[bwrlane]

Could you find another 330d and compare? I would say mine does sometimes give that slight diesely tone, and yes it is at 1500 rpm. But it only happens when the engine is cold and it's not intrusive. Yes, the fuel does make a difference - since BMW actually recommends BP Ultimate, I don't think it can be described as "needing a special fuel" to work properly.

Overall this is one of the best engines out there, smooth, refined, powerful.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by matt@stratford

....My disagreement my BMW that I have is they have developed an engine that is less refined than the previous engine and that they have rectified the fault twice before.

So, what do you think I should do? I have asked to see the dealer principle to take him for a drive to see if he thinks the engine noise is acceptable for a £45k car.

What I see as a problem, new parts and software are not changing the long term injection function. I'm leaning towards the 'learning' adaptations take the injection strategy back to normal levels. Probably another set of injectors would do exactly the same as DDE has specific volume control for comparison to actual injection volume. Even more complex when pre-injection is also under a learning adaptation, which is my guess of where the noise is coming from, is also from my understanding a continuous learning adaptation. If your particular engine's build tolerances get back to a noisy 1,500 rpm, I see that happening even with new parts.

It could well explain why Postcab's engine is changed with higher cetane fuel, changes the combustion noise levels within the 'adapted' injection strategy.

I'd be trying fuel as a first step, just to see if it does change the sound track.

Diesel engines with different noise levels is nothing new, anyone who has run VAG engines will be very aware of "quiet through to loud" examples of exactly the same engine.

HighlandPete

[matt@stratford]

That will be part of the conversation I will be having tomorrow when I get my car back. If the noise was ther when cold and went when warmed up then I would be ok with it- but not the other way round.

[F30Andy]

Originally Posted by Postcab

I know we shouldn't have to buy special fuel to make the engine perform as it should, but sometimes life is too short...

Your not buying special fuel.

It is the fuel that the manufacturer states you should use in the handbook.

The car has been r&d'd using this fuel, therefore optimum performance will be achieved by using it.

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

What I see as a problem, new parts and software are not changing the long term injection function. I'm leaning towards the 'learning' adaptations take the injection strategy back to normal levels. Probably another set of injectors would do exactly the same as DDE has specific volume control for comparison to actual injection volume. Even more complex when pre-injection is also under a learning adaptation, which is my guess of where the noise is coming from, is also from my understanding a continuous learning adaptation. If your particular engine's build tolerances get back to a noisy 1,500 rpm, I see that happening even with new parts.

It could well explain why Postcab's engine is changed with higher cetane fuel, changes the combustion noise levels within the 'adapted' injection strategy.

I'd be trying fuel as a first step, just to see if it does change the sound track.



Diesel engines with different noise levels is nothing new, anyone who has run VAG engines will be very aware of "quiet through to loud" examples of exactly the same engine.

HighlandPete

Thanks Pete, that kinda make sense. Doesn't help any if the fuel doesn't make a difference but fingers crossed.

I wonder if there is any way to make the car learn differently??

Matt

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

Your not buying special fuel.

It is the fuel that the manufacturer states you should use in the handbook.

The car has been r&d'd using this fuel, therefore optimum performance will be achieved by using it.

Does that mean if we all use the fuel recommended we'll also get the mpg stated in the handbook??

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by matt@stratford

Does that mean if we all use the fuel recommended we'll also get the mpg stated in the handbook??

[snipnoob86]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

What I see as a problem, new parts and software are not changing the long term injection function. I'm leaning towards the 'learning' adaptations take the injection strategy back to normal levels. Probably another set of injectors would do exactly the same as DDE has specific volume control for comparison to actual injection volume. Even more complex when pre-injection is also under a learning adaptation, which is my guess of where the noise is coming from, is also from my understanding a continuous learning adaptation. If your particular engine's build tolerances get back to a noisy 1,500 rpm, I see that happening even with new parts.

It could well explain why Postcab's engine is changed with higher cetane fuel, changes the combustion noise levels within the 'adapted' injection strategy.

I'd be trying fuel as a first step, just to see if it does change the sound track.

Diesel engines with different noise levels is nothing new, anyone who has run VAG engines will be very aware of "quiet through to loud" examples of exactly the same engine.

HighlandPete

just a thought but would bmw be willing to give you the mppk tune which adjusts injection time. obviously at no cost to yourself

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by matt@stratford

I wonder if there is any way to make the car learn differently??

Matt

It depends if any of the relevant sensing components are at, or near limits of their tolerances. Both air mass and exhaust gas recirculation are involved, as is the Lamba value.

Changing parts may change the way the adaptations can take place, but how do you know if a new air mass meter will make the slightest difference? The current one may be in tolerance, so not faulty, just as your injectors were not likely the cause of the noise. Fitting new ones just gave a delay until all returned to 'normal'.

I do wonder in these sort of situations if running data 'real time' helps at all. Did the BMW technical guy run it connected to a live data flow? Say the ERG ratios are a bit high, or peaking at 1,500rpm on a light load, would a new EGR valve change the value? Doubt if even BMW's engine man would have immediate answers.

HighlandPete

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by snipnoob86

just a thought but would bmw be willing to give you the mppk tune which adjusts injection time. obviously at no cost to yourself

I did actually think of that tonight. I might ask the question and see what the response is. I wonder if it would make a difference??

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It depends if any of the relevant sensing components are at, or near limits of their tolerances. Both air mass and exhaust gas recirculation are involved, as is the Lamba value.

Changing parts may change the way the adaptations can take place, but how do you know if a new air mass meter will make the slightest difference? The current one may be in tolerance, so not faulty, just as your injectors were not likely the cause of the noise. Fitting new ones just gave a delay until all returned to 'normal'.

I do wonder in these sort of situations if running data 'real time' helps at all. Did the BMW technical guy run it connected to a live data flow? Say the ERG ratios are a bit high, or peaking at 1,500rpm on a light load, would a new EGR valve change the value? Doubt if even BMW's engine man would have immediate answers.

HighlandPete

I don't know Pete. I was going to ask them to put it on a RR to have a listen and hook it up then. I think the tech took it out for a spin and came to an easy conclusion.

I was pissed off with the whole day really. The car was booked in for 12 so I could go out with this tech so he could listen properly. But he was over 2 hours late and I had to leave it and go to work so I don't fullt know until tomorrow was he did

Matt

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by matt@stratford

I did actually think of that tonight. I might ask the question and see what the response is. I wonder if it would make a difference??

Certainly a possibility as it will be changing some values.

As this is a warm rather than cold engine clatter, I do wonder if it is to do with the EGR. I would be very tempted to temporarily block its flow and see if there is a difference.

Doubt if asking the garage to do so will get results, but as you are looking for solutions, may be worth asking the question.

HighlandPete

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Certainly a possibility as it will be changing some values.

As this is a warm rather than cold engine clatter, I do wonder if it is to do with the EGR. I would be very tempted to temporarily block its flow and see if there is a difference.

Doubt if asking the garage to do so will get results, but as you are looking for solutions, may be worth asking the question.

HighlandPete

Please excuse the dumb question EGR??

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by matt@stratford

Please excuse the dumb question EGR??

Exhaust gas recirculation. The ratio of flow back through the engine is part of the control strategy.

HighlandPete

[matt@stratford]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Exhaust gas recirculation. The ratio of flow back through the engine is part of the control strategy.

HighlandPete

Thanks I'll ask the question. I'm also going to ask for a full report from all the other tests it's had

[Alex.G]

Hi Matt. I would be interested to know how you get on again!! I too have the hot engine clatter at 1500rmp. When cold it sounds good. Light throttle openings you can really hear it and make it happen. Very annoying. On full throttle it sounds great but that uses lots of BP ultimate!!!
Keep us posted on how it goes.

[Cecil330d]

Hi Guys,

Mine is the same. When stone cold it is really quiet and smooth without any diesel clatter but when warmish it does clatter.

I read the advice on here and have used BP ultimate exclusively now. Think I am on about the 5th tank now and whilst it made no difference at first I am convinced the clatter has reduced over the last week or so.

I at first thought it may be the change in ambient temperature but I have had anything from 12c to 2c in the last 7 days so I don't think its that.

I haven't really noticed any performance change but to be fair I don't get the chance to extend it commuting that often and MPG remains unchanged. What I have noticed is when cleaning it the exhaust has no black residue.

I hope that helps and would be very interested in the results of your diagnosis.

[teaston]

Haven't you guys not noticed that BMW have built in a feature to reduce or even completely stop engine noise? There's a little knob on the left side of the head unit & if you turn it clockwise it progressively reduces engine noise until you can't hear it at all any more! It also works for wind noise, road noise, interior trim rattles and squeaks & wife/girlfriend/kids moaning!