[Infamy]

Have a 7pm dyno apt tonight with my buddy, he's fbo running Cobb (custom user setting) vs my car fbo jb4 map3 65adder. Both cars are n54 335i. Cobb car is manual and jb4 auto. Fuel is about the same, e30 on both cars. Jb4 is spraying meth 60/40 mix.
We will be using a dyno jet dyno. Runs will be right after 1 another with 3 runs each. Maybe a minute or two for cool down time.

Cobb car mods:
Ap v2
Dci
Vrsf dwn pipes
Vrsf charge pipe
Wagner fmic
Tial bov
Muffler delete.

Jb4 car mods:
Jb4 G5 24/13//12 firmware
Stock flash
Dci
ETS fmic
ER charge pipe
Bms dwn pipes
RB pcv
Bms sport oil cooler valve
Stock DVs
Bms meth kit single cm10 nozzle

Who you think will come out with more power?
Any guesses on the numbers they will make?

[mojobmw_e90]

I beleive You would make more power on map7 than map3 with e30 and meth

But judging by the mod list of actually horsepower increaser, the jb4 adds more power out of the box vs Cobb, and having meth to cool everything down quicker results in more power

I'm saying jb4

[kctim]

Custom User Setting ?? Unless the cobb car is tuned by one of the pro's or your friend really knows what he's doing, Jb4 will take the cake easy here. Especially after the 1st run because you have meth.

[stanlalee]

Really trying hard to make it Cobb vs JB4 but all it is is your car vs his. You running meth and MAP 3 obviously have a distinctive advantage over who knows what Cobb running (at least he should load up the e30 map which is still conservative IMO). You have similar mods otherwise but share no hardware. Flash tunes have a distinctive low rpm advantage (jb4 low end fueling limitation without backend flash), beyond that it's all in the tuning not device. If his "user tuning" is pushing 20psi and 14 deg of timing who knows. If it's like any Cobb OTS maps you sm should produce more peak HP due to math and map 3 boost curve

[Infamy]

Cause it is jb4 vs Cobb duhh. No need for butt hurt people.

He is running 18-19psi. The only thing different would be the meth Iam running. Iam on stock flash so it's prolly a toss up.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Unfortunately this is really far from Cobb VS JB4. Not one other modification is the same, except for the DCI.

Different downpipes, intercoolers, charge pipes, BOV/DV, methanol, exhaust...

The methanol and intercooler alone is a huge game changer.

That being said, my money is on Methanol.

[Infamy]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Unfortunately this is really far from Cobb VS JB4. Not one other modification is the same, except for the DCI.

Different downpipes, intercoolers, charge pipes, BOV/DV, methanol...

The methanol and intercooler alone is a huge game changer.

It's FBO Cobb car vs FBO jb4 car. Both same fuel. Only difference is jb4 running meth. No way are you going to get two different cars with all mods being identical brand. Lol Come on now!! So yes this is a FBO COBB 335 vs FBO jb4 335 running meth.
Don't make this out to be a tuning war is just me and a friend going to compare our FBO setup.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Infamy

It's FBO Cobb car vs FBO jb4 car. Both same fuel. Only difference is jb4 running meth. No way are you going to get two different cars with all mods being identical brand. Lol Come on now!! So yes this is a FBO COBB 335 vs FBO jb4 335 running meth.
Don't make this out to be a tuning war is just me and a friend going to compare our FBO setup.

It's not about "brand".

First and foremost, methanol alone is a huge difference. Methanol will cool IAT far greater then just an intercooler plus it has it's octane benefits. That alone means the other car has no chance to compete, not even on E85.

Then you have different intercoolers, not just brand, different cores entirely with different density and efficiency, frontal surface area, end tank design, ETC.

The downpipes, again, different but likely negligible in comparison to the above.

As far as BOV VS Stock DV, well since most stock DV's leak, that will come at a slight disadvantage to that car. The charge pipe itself, likely negligible.

The muffler delete car is a decent restriction removed, probably good for 10WHP on it's own if tuned right.

Pretty far from just brand differences if you really get into the details. Not all FBO is created equal

I used to walk on guys with "FBO" and all I had was a Tune, DCI and methanol (stock DP, Stock FMIC).

I'm not sure how I made this out to be a tuner war, I didn't once mention the tunes or how they play a role as well but I can knit pick that if you'd like too since you are likely not running the same boost curves or ignition timing

Enjoy the dyno runs but for the majority this is just a comparison between 2 entirely different cars with different modifications. The tunes really play no role as you can get the same power out of either tune.

[Infamy]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

It's not about "brand".

First and foremost, methanol alone is a huge difference. Methanol will cool IAT far greater then just an intercooler plus it has it's octane benefits. That alone means the other car has no chance to compete, not even on E85.

Then you have different intercoolers, not just brand, different cores entirely with different density and efficiency, frontal surface area, end tank design, ETC.

The downpipes, again, different but likely negligible in comparison to the above.

As far as BOV VS Stock DV, well since most stock DV's leak, that will come at a slight disadvantage to that car. The charge pipe itself, likely negligible.

The muffler delete car is a decent restriction removed, probably good for 10WHP on it's own if tuned right.

Pretty far from just brand differences if you really get into the details.

I understand what you are saying and I agree, but I feel the only real game changer is the meth. It's only 50degrees out so I don't think fmic brand will make a big difference, but we shall see. Both cars will be logged.
FA335i

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Infamy

I understand what you are saying and I agree, but I feel the only real game changer is the meth. It's only 50degrees out so I don't think fmic brand will make a big difference, but we shall see. Both cars will be logged.

Unfortunately, IAT is only a small piece of the equation.

If the other car is on pump 93 octane, methanol is like running on 105+ octane.

A pump non meth car will not have nearly as high of ignition timing and boost.

The non meth car will have ignition timing around just 2-3 degrees in the mid range, slowly rising to maybe 10 by redline. The meth car can run 10 degrees ignition timing nearly out of the gate ramping up to 12 by redline.

Plus there is no way you are running an apples to apples boost curve. Non meth cars can not run as high of boost compared to a meth car. I could run 19-20 PSI tapering to 16 on Meth. Typical FBO non meth might see 17 PSI tapering to 13-14 at redline.

Every 1 psi is good for nearly 10WHP plus you have the ignition timing differences. Meth would be the biggest game changer of all the modifications but those other modifications have their differences too. The tunes pretty much play no role here as you can tune either tune to take advantage of the modifications.

By the way, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to educate.

[Whiteout335i]

I say do the first or last run out of the 3 with no meth just as a comparison as how much you really benefit from it and a fair comparison

[Infamy]

Originally Posted by Whiteout335i

I say do the first or last run out of the 3 with no meth just as a comparison as how much you really benefit from it and a fair comparison

Good idea.

[mike@x-ph.com]

The Jb4 car will win easily because 1- JB4 offers more power out of the box and 2- it has better mods

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Map 7 makes a good JB4 dyno map on E30 + meth. But if you really want to work over your friend on the dyno get that E85 back end flash loaded along with the new 28.82 back end flash map 7.

Mike

[Andrewe92]

haha russ can't wait to see the numbers and how they stack up.. it's def not a completely even match up, I agree with jeff both are different but none the less very interested in seeing the numbers . I see the jb4 coming out on top .. i will try to make it hah keep us posted

[jayzF30]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The Jb4 car will win easily because 1- JB4 offers more power out of the box and 2- it has better mods

On pump gas #1 is completely false and unfounded. Given the JB car has meth and runs considerably more timing due to no backend flash this comparison makes no sense.

Just dumb apples to oranges. Why not compare with a stock car as well then?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by jazze90

On pump gas #1 is completely false and unfounded. Given the JB car has meth and runs considerably more timing due to no backend flash this comparison makes no sense.

Just dumb apples to oranges. Why not compare with a stock car as well then?

I remember having this conversation with you about number 1. If you google it you will easily find that JB4 offers more power out of the box than Cobb ( which by the way is not a bad thing) .
As for the comparison, i never said it makes sense,im just answering OP's question about which car will generate more power on that dyno.

[jayzF30]

Oh puhleeaase. On pump gas given FBO cars the Cobb car on Stage 2+ Aggressive will always put down more power than just a JB without a backend flash. Combine that with way more knock on map 1 and 2 JB on its own has NO chance against a proper flash tune that adjusts literally everything in the map. I don't need to google it. These are facts. All JB does is raise boost dude. It can't adjust either spark timing or vanos or fuel injectors and lambda or anything JUST boost and raises fuel pressure. Way too basic for a modern motor. It'll make power of course no doubt but its doing it in such an archaic wrong way given what flash tuning brings to the table. This isn't an opinion either dude, its just a technical fact.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by jazze90

Oh puhleeaase. On pump gas given FBO cars the Cobb car on Stage 2+ Aggressive will always put down more power than just a JB without a backend flash. Combine that with way more knock on map 1 and 2 JB on its own has NO chance against a proper flash tune that adjusts literally everything in the map. I don't need to google it. These are facts. All JB does is raise boost dude. It can't adjust either spark timing or vanos or fuel injectors and lambda or anything JUST boost and raises fuel pressure. Way too basic for a modern motor. It'll make power of course no doubt but its doing it in such an archaic wrong way given what flash tuning brings to the table. This isn't an opinion either dude, its just a technical fact.

Here we go
You start by saying Cobb will put more power and then you say Of course the Jb4 is putting more power but it is not doing it properly.
We are not debating what is the better way to tune this engine, we are debating which tune puts more power out of the box
it is a fact that JB4 puts more power out of the box.

[idratherbesurfing]

If you do a run without meth jb4 will lose to a Cobb pro tune. With meth hooked up there's no comparison

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by idratherbesurfing

If you do a run without meth jb4 will lose to a Cobb pro tune. With meth hooked up there's no comparison

We are talking about of the box features.
Pro tune is not out of the box.

[Whiteout335i]

He's not pro tuned...