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      01-10-2016, 04:10 PM   #1
neilr
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Public Liability

Guys in after a little advice...
Yesterday afternoon i was cycling down a cyclelane on a pavement and struck a sign which had blown / fallen over and was lying on top a fence, protruding into the cyclelane but about 1 1/2ft, laying at just the right height to hit my handlebar. Due to the way it was positioned i could only see the side profile of it which was made of timber and only a couple of inch's thick, I spotted it at the last moment but didn't manage to avoid, I clipped the handlebar and down I went, eventually ending up lying prone on the road after sliding approx. 10ft off the path.
Now the sign belongs to a garage, who's land it was on, would they be liable for the damage caused to my bike, personal belongings and clothing? I've got the details off the Manager of their HQ, surely due to the sign overhanging a public right of way I could claim against their Public Liability?
I've estimated the cost of the clothing, phone and damage to the bike to be around £600.
Unfortunately their were no witnesses but I informed the Manager of the garage once i'd gotten myself together, I have got pictures of the sign, along with pics of my injurys and damaged kit, I also spent 4 hours in A & E having the wounds dressed although I'm nothing more than walking wounded, it's more the cost of replacing the kit which has been damaged
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      01-10-2016, 05:31 PM   #2
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I don't 'know' but I would have thought YES!

Given the fact estate agent for sale signs had to be relocated year back (ie not to protrude into the road or pathways) for similar reasons, I think this is the same.

Hope you are all ok soon, good luck with the claim.
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      01-10-2016, 05:46 PM   #3
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Best to chat to citizens advice on that one

No expert but think you may have to prove negligence on their part eg did they know it had blown down and chose not to do anything or did it blow down overnight and no one could reasonably be expected to know

Like I said I'm no expert. Suggest professional advice on this.

Hope your not too bad.
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      01-11-2016, 04:46 AM   #4
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I work in corporate insurance and generally, its always someone's fault. I would say you absolutely have a claim as it is the garage's responsibility to ensure the sign is securely fixed and doesn't pose a safety threat. Only grey area is if they engaged someone else to put it up but the insurers will sort this out between themselves.

You definitely have a claim and you did the right thing by letting the manager know. Document everything and get in touch with CAB or a solicitor.
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      01-11-2016, 05:47 AM   #5
isleaiw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilr View Post
Guys in after a little advice...
Yesterday afternoon i was cycling down a cyclelane on a pavement and struck a sign which had blown / fallen over and was lying on top a fence, protruding into the cyclelane but about 1 1/2ft, laying at just the right height to hit my handlebar. Due to the way it was positioned i could only see the side profile of it which was made of timber and only a couple of inch's thick, I spotted it at the last moment but didn't manage to avoid, I clipped the handlebar and down I went, eventually ending up lying prone on the road after sliding approx. 10ft off the path.
Now the sign belongs to a garage, who's land it was on, would they be liable for the damage caused to my bike, personal belongings and clothing? I've got the details off the Manager of their HQ, surely due to the sign overhanging a public right of way I could claim against their Public Liability?
I've estimated the cost of the clothing, phone and damage to the bike to be around £600.
Unfortunately their were no witnesses but I informed the Manager of the garage once i'd gotten myself together, I have got pictures of the sign, along with pics of my injurys and damaged kit, I also spent 4 hours in A & E having the wounds dressed although I'm nothing more than walking wounded, it's more the cost of replacing the kit which has been damaged
Yep - one the of the accident chasing solicitors will contact them and log claim via a portal and then it will all be handled by insurers...

I sit on the receiving end of such claims - can tell its Jan and people are broke, had three slips and trips in our properties already today!

Good luck with claim, unfortunately genuine claims like yours got lost in the myriad of clearly made up claims that I receive but which invariably get paid as its cheaper than going to court....
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      01-11-2016, 12:58 PM   #6
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Cheers lads, spoken to the CAB today but they admitted it was a little out of their remit, they suggested I contact a Personal Injury Solicitor, so I've set the ball rolling.
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      01-13-2016, 03:01 AM   #7
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If you are member of British cycling, it would be worth having a chat with them
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      01-13-2016, 06:17 AM   #8
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Playing devils advocate here, but what were you doing at the time of the accident?
Updating your personal insurance cover via your phone??
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      01-13-2016, 09:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pienchips View Post
Playing devils advocate here, but what were you doing at the time of the accident?
Updating your personal insurance cover via your phone??
Hehe. It's interesting that with one side of the story available (and I'm not disputing the OP's tale) that the case seems so clear cut.

We all have a duty of care to ourselves. i.e. if you walk down the middle of the motorway, you can't necessarily blame a motorist for knocking you over. The cyclist may have reasonably expected debris to be on the cycle lane especially after the recent storms. Did he take reasonable actions to protect himself?
No doubt the OP costed a new phone etc rather than reasonable compensation for any loss?
May be teh cyclists own insurance will cover the loss...oh wait a minute, cyclists and insurance
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      01-13-2016, 02:32 PM   #10
neilr
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Ooo last two reply's cut deep, nearly as deep as the abrasions on my elbow and hip lol

But I get where your coming from and being honest I think house insurance will cover the cost of the accidental damage to the clothing and phone, so I'll be claiming against my own insurance if the garage who own the sign won't cover the replacement

I think I've managed to add a pic taken just after, ironically with a que of traffic, I just didn't see it sticking out
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Last edited by neilr; 01-13-2016 at 02:46 PM..
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      01-13-2016, 03:16 PM   #11
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I wasn't trying to be rude or anything, just presenting a different view.
TBH, looking at your pic, it looks like a pavement rather than a cycle lane - where are the markings?
Any hoo, hitting that must have been a sore one so I hope your ok and it's only the phone etc that are beyond repair.
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      01-14-2016, 01:26 AM   #12
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Actually you could be right on the pavement
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      01-14-2016, 01:43 AM   #13
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That could change things, seeing as it's illegal to ride on a pavement. I am also sorry to say how did you miss that. Unless you were riding "fast" which won't help your case for being on a pavement
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      01-25-2016, 10:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post
That could change things, seeing as it's illegal to ride on a pavement. I am also sorry to say how did you miss that. Unless you were riding "fast" which won't help your case for being on a pavement
Those things would be classed as contributory negligence but the owner of the property / sign still owes a duty of care to the user of the footpath - so you would still get something....

Its like we are responsible for any injuries or damage sustained by people who trespass across fenced off carparks at properties undergoing refurb - makes my blood boil but that's the law!
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      01-25-2016, 10:49 AM   #15
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Firstly....ouch...that must've hurt!

But, cycle lanes are pretty new ideas in the grand scheme of things. Often coloured or at least with clear markings on the ground or on sign posts along the way - and that doesn't look like any cycle path I've seen - a decrepit and buggered tarmac section and a wonky paved section?

Even if part was a cycle way, pretty sure it'd be the wider tarmac section (thus avoiding the fallen over sign), not the single paved bit, which if you were riding on, you'd be perilously close to the handrail.

Just remember, they'll be looking for ways to avoid paying out - and in my non legal (and also a cyclist!) eyes the things that instantly stand out are that you did well to be riding at such speed (as noted in a post above) along what would appear to be a footpath (illegal), which itself is only partly obstructed by the fallen sign - so a bit like driving, the first thing against you there might be not paying due care and attention to where you were going, and also riding at an inappropriate speed for the cycleway(if indeed it is proven to be one....which looks unlikely). Was it dark, did you have lights, etc? Looks like a pretty big thing to totally not see in daylight, as pictured, that's all.

If I were you, I'd get a better picture that shows it being a cycleway - sign post, painted markings, etc. That would strengthen your case a bit IMO.

You'll still then have the problem of explaining how and why you were doing sufficient speed to allow you to bail and then slide 10ft.
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      01-26-2016, 06:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russbmw View Post

Just remember, they'll be looking for ways to avoid paying out - and in my non legal (and also a cyclist!) eyes the things that instantly stand out are that you did well to be riding at such speed (as noted in a post above) along what would appear to be a footpath (illegal), which itself is only partly obstructed by the fallen sign - so a bit like driving, the first thing against you there might be not paying due care and attention to where you were going, and also riding at an inappropriate speed for the cycleway(if indeed it is proven to be one....which looks unlikely). Was it dark, did you have lights, etc? Looks like a pretty big thing to totally not see in daylight, as pictured, that's all.

If I were you, I'd get a better picture that shows it being a cycleway - sign post, painted markings, etc. That would strengthen your case a bit IMO.

You'll still then have the problem of explaining how and why you were doing sufficient speed to allow you to bail and then slide 10ft.

Sounds like the basis of a counter claim for damaging the sign!
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      01-26-2016, 11:07 AM   #17
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Well...just saying.



It's hard enough to get the Council to cough up when you destroy your car's wheel in a completely unavoidable pothole that's large enough to have it's own postcode - let alone trying to claim because of someone else's sign that you collided with whilst cycling like your arse was on fire; a sign that wasn't anywhere near completely blocking what looks to be a pavement that quite possibly you shouldn't be cycling down anyway........

It'll be a tough one to argue for sure - and I do feel for the OP, because pretty sure we've all done something similar at some point, and aside from pain and broken stuff, you feel like a bit of a dick.

As an aside, it's funny how society has changed over the years.

I came a cropper on my road bike when I was about 16, due to a load of small road coloured gravel/stones that had been put around the kerbside spilling out onto the road on a s-bend corner. I was belting it...as you do. Front wheel went from under me, I slid off the road and then got catapulted off the bike once the crossbar clouted a wooden post on the roadside (putting a nice dent and kink in my £600, so expensive at the time, bike). Meanwhile, my flight over the nettle ridden grassy bit resulted in a load of stings, but not as much stinging as when I landed on the other side...on the road again, and slid down the road on my side.

First thought was, fuck my bike's buggered - followed by "ouch". Went to the hospital, got cleaned up and went home feeling sorry for myself. There was no plan formed for trying to sue someone for gravel not being where it should have been, or not trimming the nettles, or having a wooden post at the edge of the road - and even if I had, realistically, it was mostly my fault for going to fast and not allowing me time to notice the bloody stones.
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      01-26-2016, 12:48 PM   #18
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Personal responsibility went the way of the dodo a long time ago IMHO
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      01-26-2016, 01:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pienchips View Post
Personal responsibility went the way of the dodo a long time ago IMHO
Which is a sad reflection on society - and a pain in the arse as we all pay higher premiums as a result!
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