[Big Nodge]

A dealer is telling me that they can't discount port installed accessories from MSRP. It sounds like bullshit to me but they almost seem happy for me to just buy the parts myself if I won't pay MSRP. Am I right, is it bullshit, or has anyone heard this?

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

A dealer is telling me that they can't discount port installed accessories from MSRP. It sounds like bullshit to me but they almost seem happy for me to just buy the parts myself if I won't pay MSRP. Am I right, is it bullshit, or has anyone heard this?

I think this is where dealers make a lot of money. My dealer said the same but I insisted on at-least 10% even though invoice is lower.

I was fine with that because if I bought it on my own, it would cost a lot more.

[JTEsquire]

The dealer I bought the port installed parts from gave me 10% off MSRP.

[chiefneil]

My SA did my m-perf rear diffuser at invoice. We had a contract for invoice + $600 for the car, so I guess he stuck to it. I was actually pleasantly surprised when I saw it on the paperwork as we never really discussed it other than me sending him an email to add it to my order.

Anyway, if you're price sensitive I understand the eBay versions are pretty good for about 1/3 the price. I'd probably go that route if I had to do it again.

[Big Nodge]

Interesting. We had agreed to invoice + $1k on the car. I offered an additional $250 over the stepped up invoice (including the PIAs) but they wouldn't budge from MSRP. It seems bizarre to me. I'm happy to pay a reasonable price for the m performance stuff, but on principle I have trouble accepting a raw deal, especially if it's based on bs negotiating. Thing is, I'm actually still considering the body kit at MSRP, since it includes paint and install and actually doesn't look like a bad deal when you consider the VPC uses factory paint. Maybe I'm a sucker after all. But 10% off would make it easier to swallow.

[chiefneil]

If you're not paying extra for the paint then I'd say it's not a bad deal. Normally the parts are unpainted, so depending on what all you're getting you're probably saving several hundred in painting costs. That is assuming you're paying MSRP on the unpainted part number and not MSRP on the painted part number.

[goj]

1000% BS. They are telling you that they don't want to

[Big Nodge]

No, I think these must be the painted invoice/MSRP numbers. For example the front splitter has an invoice price of $785 and an MSRP of $1,065. That MSRP would include paint and install but still, looks high. I can get the splitter for $515 from get BMW parts, if I figure $200 for painting and $200 for install then I'm at $915. So we are talking about a $150 premium for factor quality paint/install, assuming my cost estimates for a body shop are reasonable.

That doesn't strike me as an awful deal, but at the end of the day my gut tells me goj is right and they are full of it. I'm going to tell them I can't justify any of this at full MSRP and see what they say.

[Big Nodge]

They ended up knocking ~10% off MSRP so I went for it. The feedback in this thread was very helpful.

[Versipellis]

Is 10% off MSRP the norm for PIA?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

I think this is where dealers make a lot of money. My dealer said the same but I insisted on at-least 10% even though invoice is lower.

I was fine with that because if I bought it on my own, it would cost a lot more.

I don't think they make a lot of money on PIAs. Firstly, very few customers get them. Second, there really isn't a lot of markup on options. I'm a little surprised there was 10% discount to give.

Does anyone have invoice prices for PIAs?

[Big Nodge]

They sent me a build sheet with invoice pricing and there was actually substantial markup on the PIAs, assuming the dealer pays invoice. For the full body kit plus the interior trim and few other small things invoice was about 73% of MSRP on the build sheet I was given (this included paint for the splitter, diffuser, and spoiler). This is why I couldn't take it, they were doubling their profit on a $60k car by adding a couple g's of accessories. They are still making too much at 10% off, but it was the best I could do.

I do understand their logic though. Basically the dealers can't compete with the labor costs embedded in PIA MSRPs. So, they try to hold the line on PIA discounts to encourage people to just install the stuff at the dealership so they can keep more of the economics for the dealer.

[Goody4]

Originally Posted by Versipellis

Is 10% off MSRP the norm for PIA?

It still needs to be stressed that PIA items cost the dealer ZERO (painted, not painted, it's all the same). Whatever you pay over invoice is pure profit for the dealer.

For instance, there is a 28% markup on the port-installed performance exhaust. (This is the only PIA that I have knowledge of both the invoice and retail prices.)

Ask your dealer what the invoice is for item(s) you want. Negotiate from there.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

They sent me a build sheet with invoice pricing and there was actually substantial markup on the PIAs, assuming the dealer pays invoice. For the full body kit plus the interior trim and few other small things invoice was about 73% of MSRP on the build sheet I was given (this included paint for the splitter, diffuser, and spoiler). This is why I couldn't take it, they were doubling their profit on a $60k car by adding a couple g's of accessories. There are still making too much at 10% off, but it was the best I could do.

I do understand their logic though. Basically the dealers can't compete with the labor costs embedded in PIA MSRPs. So, they try to hold the line on PIA discounts to encourage people to just install the stuff at the dealership so they can keep more of the economics for the dealer.

That's interesting.

I have a question for you. Why would it bother you so much if a dealer made $2,000 on the sale rather than $1,000 on a $60,000 car, because you wanted to have some even more performance oriented options? Is it really such a bad thing? I'm guessing if you're doing well enough to spend $60,000, spending $61,000 isn't going to affect your retirement fund or even your annual vacation. Even less if you happen to be leasing.

[Big Nodge]

Originally Posted by __

That's interesting.

I have a question for you. Why would it bother you so much if a dealer made $2,000 on the sale rather than $1,000 on a $60,000 car, because you wanted to have some even more performance oriented options? Is it really such a bad thing? I'm guessing if you're doing well enough to spend $60,000, spending $61,000 isn't going to affect your retirement fund or even your annual vacation. Even less if you happen to be leasing.

It has nothing to do with my personal finances, and it's semi-weird that you are talking about my "annual vacation."

Economic decisions are made on the margin. We agreed that $1k over invoice was a fair price for the service they provide - procuring a BMW for me. By adding the PIA the dealership's incremental value was looking up some prices for me and then punching my decisions into a computer system. Arguably that type of thing is already implicitly included in the original deal, but I was always happy to pay them over invoice. I just didn't think it merited doubling their profit on the transaction.

That was my thinking. Of course you're free to use whatever negotiating principles you see fit.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

It has nothing to do with my personal finances, and it's semi-weird that you are talking about my "annual vacation."

Economic decisions are made on the margin. We agreed that $1k over invoice was a fair price for the service they provide - procuring a BMW for me. By adding the PIA the dealership's incremental value was looking up some prices for me and then punching my decisions into a computer system. Arguably that type of thing is already implicitly included in the original deal, but I was always happy to pay them over invoice. I just didn't think it merited doubling their profit on the transaction.

That was my thinking. Of course you're free to use whatever negotiating principles you see fit.

I'm just more and more struck by how utterly cheap a lot of forum BMW enthusiasts can be. I'm not necessarily saying that's you, but it applies to many, many people who post on forums like this.

Folks won't bat an eye at paying $2,000 for a flat screen TV that's marked up 50 - 100%, but they want to grind their CA into dust on a $50,000 - $125,000 auto purchase that the majority of people can't afford, because he's just pushing some paper around.

Someone on the 'fest posted this earlier today. People brag about how little they paid for their car, and then brag about how much they paid for their house.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to save money everywhere we can, but it seems it's a little out of whack on BMW forums. Sometimes it's not very flattering to those who call themselves enthusiasts.


btw, I just pulled that $1,000 profit out of thin air and I have no idea how many vacations you take nor do I care.

[Big Nodge]

Ok. Thanks for sharing that, I guess.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by __

I'm just more and more struck by how utterly cheap a lot of forum BMW enthusiasts can be. I'm not necessarily saying that's you, but it applies to many, many people who post on forums like this.

Folks won't bat an eye at paying $2,000 for a flat screen TV that's marked up 50 - 100%, but they want to grind their CA into dust on a $50,000 - $125,000 auto purchase that the majority of people can't afford, because he's just pushing some paper around.

Someone on the 'fest posted this earlier today. People brag about how little they paid for their car, and then brag about how much they paid for their house.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to save money everywhere we can, but it seems it's a little out of whack on BMW forums. Sometimes it's not very flattering to those who call themselves enthusiasts.


btw, I just pulled that $1,000 profit out of thin air and I have no idea how many vacations you take nor do I care.

Ok, wait... Big Nodge, very nice on the economic breakdown.

But poster with no name, let's get into this a bit for humor and education for everyone; including myself.

No one should want to pay sticker for anything that costs over $500, your HDTV comparison is not accurate. Electronics are not often sold with huge mark ups; when you see that same TV marked down at year end, the manufacturer is usually taking a loss. If it's a higher quality line, it's even worse. This is why not many companies make panels any longer. At this point, the need is to clear inventory in a highly competitive market. VIZIO has the best model, but not as profitable as other outfits, hence the low costs. They just want market share; good for them, good for us.

With regards to invoice for cars; often, that's still not the cost to the dealer, especially if it's a large dealership. Keep in mind, BMWs are not mass produced, each car is an order from some specific customer; the cars on the lot were ordered from the dealership to turn around and sell.

The most important thing for a dealer to do is move inventory, there are taxes, and many other costs they need to unload; dealerships are very profitable for luxury cars.

You kind of sound like a car sales guy.

[JTEsquire]

Originally Posted by Goody4

For instance, there is a 28% markup on the port-installed performance exhaust. (This is the only PIA that I have knowledge of both the invoice and retail prices.)

Where did you find that info? I have been looking for an invoice price list for m-performance parts for a while.

[XRAVE]

My Ca mentioned that PIA options are billed to the service department. It kind of sounds like BS but some other things I thought were BS turned out to be true. Because of that, he doesn't have much room to work on it.

I gave him a scenario where he gives me more than 10% off the MPE or I don't add it at all he said he would prefer not to add it at all. If they truly made 28%, then he would have at-least tried 15% off or something.

3 dealers have told me that they don't discount PIA and now seeing this thread with many having difficulty, I find it unlikely that people are getting these things at invoice.

I also don't get the comparison to the house. I've never heard someone say they paid a million for a house. And if they did I'm sure they would say but I got a GREAT deal. And when someone brags about the deal they got on a car, they say I got a 60k car for 50k.

Buying TVs also isn't apples to apples since most stores doesn't negotiate on price? If you saw the same TV online for 100$ cheaper, you would buy it online.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Ok, wait... Big Nodge, very nice on the economic breakdown.

But poster with no name, let's get into this a bit for humor and education for everyone; including myself.

No one should want to pay sticker for anything that costs over $500, your HDTV comparison is not accurate. Electronics are not often sold with huge mark ups; when you see that same TV marked down at year end, the manufacturer is usually taking a loss. If it's a higher quality line, it's even worse. This is why not many companies make panels any longer. At this point, the need is to clear inventory in a highly competitive market. VIZIO has the best model, but not as profitable as other outfits, hence the low costs. They just want market share; good for them, good for us.

With regards to invoice for cars; often, that's still not the cost to the dealer, especially if it's a large dealership. Keep in mind, BMWs are not mass produced, each car is an order from some specific customer; the cars on the lot were ordered from the dealership to turn around and sell.

The most important thing for a dealer to do is move inventory, there are taxes, and many other costs they need to unload; dealerships are very profitable for luxury cars.

You kind of sound like a car sales guy.

Not in most cases.

Standard Retail model is a 50 point markup from brand to retailer and another 50 points from retailer to MSRP.

As thus, when a $150 to make CE selling to Retailer at $300 and to customer at $600 is marked down to $400 at close out, they are still making $100 on the sale.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Not in most cases.

Standard Retail model is a 50 point markup from brand to retailer and another 50 points from retailer to MSRP.

As thus, when a $150 to make CE selling to Retailer at $300 and to customer at $600 is marked down to $400 at close out, they are still making $100 on the sale.

That's 100% mark up, 50% margin

Generally in electronics, the mark up is a lot greater than that though. Most of their cost is in R&D so they charge the end user for that.

Big box stores normally take a 3-40% margin to be competitive while the wholesalers makes 60%.

TVs especially are low margin and they make the money on accessories, service plans, and warranties. Examples would be an HDMI cable which is in the 90% margins.