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      04-18-2016, 06:00 PM   #1
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Do spacers impact the car in a negative way

Getting my Dinan suspension delivered this week and looking to install ASAP.

Keeping OEM wheels for now and as everyone tends to add 10/12mm spacers to the stock setup...I've been reading mixed reviewed on the ride quality.

Hoping to get some feedback from everyone regarding the impact spacers have on their cars...debating if I should buy them or not...

The reviews I've read all very random...so love them others say they feel unsafe. I've never run spacers in my life so I'm looking to get some info.


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      04-18-2016, 06:43 PM   #2
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In general a modest spacer size is not an issue. Remember that anyone adding wider wheels with more offset is likely adding at least 10mm to the center line of the wheel. The factory runs different wheels w/different offsets on the same model BMWs. IMO 10-15mm is fine, especially on BMWs which all have center hub/wheel matching. On a 2 series you can run a 10mm in front, but the rear is a little more difficult, general a 12.5 or 13 is the most common starting point for spacer size, but many people like 15mm in the rear. Going beyond 15mm on stock rear wheels tends to give more "poke" than I care for.

So how much is too much? That's a good question and really don't have a good standard answer, nor have I seen anything that spells it out. IMO 15mm is probably nearing the point of tradeoff for reasonable offset wo/altering the suspension/potential safety for street use.

Any offset alters suspension geometry, sometimes good (if not excessive) and some times bad. Adding more offset (spacers or wheel offset) alters a couple of things: track width (+), scrub radius (-), slightly reduces effective spring rate ( + or -), steering feel/resistance (+) but also increases load on steering pump (-) and of course excessive offset can create tire rubbing.

Last edited by jaboyd; 04-18-2016 at 06:51 PM..
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      04-18-2016, 07:53 PM   #3
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I agonised over this. After restricting myself to performance-enhancing mods only, I was reluctant to commit to an essentially aesthetic mod that might have a negative impact on the car's handling, safety and/or OEM warranty status.

In the end, after I got the car onto the Dinan springs, as you are doing (and a really positive, high-impact mod, IMO), I liked the aesthetic effect but could not ignore the feeling that the car's more pleasing, assertive stance could only be completed with spacers. It's not that I felt the wheels looks recessed in stock form, it's just that the lowering inevitably draws the eyes to their position within the wheel well.

The critical factor for me in the end was the advice given to me by the guys at the indie tuner shop that has done all my mods and whom I have come to trust a hundred per cent with my car. They have a lot of experience with spacers and they all run them on their own non-crazily modified cars. I resolved that I was going to do 15mm R and 10mm F (for some reason the shop does not use 12s) but then decided I wanted to preserve the car's original center-line proportions and would go with 15/15 if (i) the car could accommodate 15mm in the front without any sign of rubbing and (ii) if the techs gave this idea their full blessing. Also, I did not want to get 10mm in the front and then not really see any real difference. When I suggested 15mm at both ends, the tech simply said "that's what I would do".

They showed me the effect of these spacers after they did one side, so that I could compare it to the stock setup on the other side. I was delighted with the result: the widened stance was noticeable without being silly or inappropriate. After they installed all four spacers, they positioned my car so that the front wheels sat on a steep ramp, turned the wheel to full-lock position and studied the clearances very closely. They pronounced themselves satisfied and so was I. I really like the car's improved presence as the result of its better stance and, yes, I think it completes the aesthetic effect of the drop. The car handles every bit as sharply on its new springs as it did before the spacers install and there have been no signs of rubbing, vibration or degraded handling in any respect. The wider track even has a few handling benefits.

For me, the bottom line was trusting the installers and being confident that they understood -- and shared -- my philosophy, which is never to "pimp out" the car through blingy mods but to make responsible, practical choices whose beneficial effects, in terms of both performance and aesthetics, would easily outweigh any possible negatives and which would not raise red flags at dealership service departments when the car goes in for warrantied services. I had to trust that both the springs and spacers would be installed immaculately, and they were.

Here, FWIW, is the result of the springs, with drop and spacers. Keep us posted.

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      04-18-2016, 11:42 PM   #4
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Y'all crack me up. I'm sorry but there's no reason to over think this so much. The change made to the suspension geometry is going to be so marginal from a few mm of change in wheel offset. Any improvements or lack thereof in the car's handling, is going to be a hell of a placebo. Other more important components of suspension remain unchanged: shocks, bushings, springs, control arms, etc.

Saying that you can't run a spacer (of appropriate size) is like saying you can't run an aftermarket wheel with a lower offset. If it makes you feel any better, almost every E36 race car I've seen has had to run spacers.
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      04-19-2016, 09:06 AM   #5
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I run 5mm front and 12.5mm rear with corresponding bolts for my setup.

Drives fine. Better in fact since the front isn't rubbing anymore.
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      04-20-2016, 06:53 AM   #6
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I would be more inclined to fit F8x M3/M4 lower control arms in lieu of front spacers.

Upside

1. stock parts
2. adds caster - more feel to steering wheel
3. widens track by abt 10mm
4. adds negative camber
5. lowers the nose slightly
6. firmer bushes

Downside

1. costs more than spacers
2. moves the front wheels fwd in the wheel well slightly

I have them fitted on my m135i here in the UK - combined with bespoke springs, ARBs and LSD package, my car's road manners are improved on both road and track.

BP
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      04-20-2016, 08:29 AM   #7
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^^^ I did this on my 15 M235 and it works great, as stated above. So lca plus adding rear spacers of ~12mm will make a nice improvement in overall handling and appearence. Total cost w/alignment for LCA and rear spacers/lugs is under $600.
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      04-20-2016, 10:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
I would be more inclined to fit F8x M3/M4 lower control arms in lieu of front spacers.

Upside

1. stock parts
2. adds caster - more feel to steering wheel
3. widens track by abt 10mm
4. adds negative camber
5. lowers the nose slightly
6. firmer bushes

Downside

1. costs more than spacers
2. moves the front wheels fwd in the wheel well slightly

I have them fitted on my m135i here in the UK - combined with bespoke springs, ARBs and LSD package, my car's road manners are improved on both road and track.

BP
oh... no wonder it felt like now the wheel felt further out with the LCA than before the LCA...

Before 12mm all around would look even front and rear, now it's like rear would need 15mm instead
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      04-20-2016, 10:24 AM   #9
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The only downside I can think of is the added unsprung weight
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      04-20-2016, 12:57 PM   #10
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Thanks everyone!!!

The feedback is great and definitely good to know. I realize there's a ton that goes into it...but I wanted to get real feedback from those that have applied it.

I realize it's additional weight, blah blah...but I read some review that people had serious issues with the feel of the car - now it may be user/installation error, but it's why I asked.


Much appreciated!
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      04-20-2016, 01:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar View Post
Thanks everyone!!!

The feedback is great and definitely good to know. I realize there's a ton that goes into it...but I wanted to get real feedback from those that have applied it.

I realize it's additional weight, blah blah...but I read some review that people had serious issues with the feel of the car - now it may be user/installation error, but it's why I asked.


Much appreciated!
You need to clean the wheel hub with a wire brush or similar to remove any previous rust...

if there is any debris in between the hub and the spacer than you might get shuddering and vibration through the steering wheel...

As long as it's clean you should feel no difference with/without spcacers

Also put anti-seize on the hub lip else with time moisture will get there and rust and fuse to the spacer and will be a PITA to take out.... if it happens though easiest way is to heat up the spacer with a torch or heat gun... because the aluminum spacer will expand faster than steel it will "pop" the rust binding after heating enough....
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      04-21-2016, 09:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
I agonised over this. After restricting myself to performance-enhancing mods only, I was reluctant to commit to an essentially aesthetic mod that might have a negative impact on the car's handling, safety and/or OEM warranty status.

In the end, after I got the car onto the Dinan springs, as you are doing (and a really positive, high-impact mod, IMO), I liked the aesthetic effect but could not ignore the feeling that the car's more pleasing, assertive stance could only be completed with spacers. It's not that I felt the wheels looks recessed in stock form, it's just that the lowering inevitably draws the eyes to their position within the wheel well.

The critical factor for me in the end was the advice given to me by the guys at the indie tuner shop that has done all my mods and whom I have come to trust a hundred per cent with my car. They have a lot of experience with spacers and they all run them on their own non-crazily modified cars. I resolved that I was going to do 15mm R and 10mm F (for some reason the shop does not use 12s) but then decided I wanted to preserve the car's original center-line proportions and would go with 15/15 if (i) the car could accommodate 15mm in the front without any sign of rubbing and (ii) if the techs gave this idea their full blessing. Also, I did not want to get 10mm in the front and then not really see any real difference. When I suggested 15mm at both ends, the tech simply said "that's what I would do".

They showed me the effect of these spacers after they did one side, so that I could compare it to the stock setup on the other side. I was delighted with the result: the widened stance was noticeable without being silly or inappropriate. After they installed all four spacers, they positioned my car so that the front wheels sat on a steep ramp, turned the wheel to full-lock position and studied the clearances very closely. They pronounced themselves satisfied and so was I. I really like the car's improved presence as the result of its better stance and, yes, I think it completes the aesthetic effect of the drop. The car handles every bit as sharply on its new springs as it did before the spacers install and there have been no signs of rubbing, vibration or degraded handling in any respect. The wider track even has a few handling benefits.

For me, the bottom line was trusting the installers and being confident that they understood -- and shared -- my philosophy, which is never to "pimp out" the car through blingy mods but to make responsible, practical choices whose beneficial effects, in terms of both performance and aesthetics, would easily outweigh any possible negatives and which would not raise red flags at dealership service departments when the car goes in for warrantied services. I had to trust that both the springs and spacers would be installed immaculately, and they were.

Here, FWIW, is the result of the springs, with drop and spacers. Keep us posted.

Any front on pics etc to see how it sits on the guards etc sir?
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      04-21-2016, 10:38 AM   #13
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I will take a couple and post them later today.
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      04-21-2016, 03:22 PM   #14
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Here you go:
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      04-21-2016, 11:21 PM   #15
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I just installed 15MM BMS Spacers all around on my bone-stock M235i and now the car just looks right. That little bit of poke at the bottom of the tire in the front, and the rear perfectly aligned.

In my opinion, this is how the car should've come stock. Love the look, thanks BarryJl as your posts convinced me haha
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      04-21-2016, 11:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer813 View Post
I just installed 15MM BMS Spacers all around on my bone-stock M235i and now the car just looks right. That little bit of poke at the bottom of the tire in the front, and the rear perfectly aligned.

In my opinion, this is how the car should've come stock. Love the look, thanks BarryJl as your posts convinced me haha
Well, thanks for giving me credit but more importantly, I'm glad you are happy with your car's stance now. Are you going to get springs and drop it a little?
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      04-22-2016, 07:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
Well, thanks for giving me credit but more importantly, I'm glad you are happy with your car's stance now. Are you going to get springs and drop it a little?
I'm just happy you posted up a new picture...I was seeing that same picture of your car on every thread and always wanted to see more - but there was only that ONE PICTURE!!!

Looks really good!
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      04-22-2016, 10:45 AM   #18
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Little hesitant to drop it

I have ECS Tuning 15mm all around and want to drop it, but a bit hesitant I'd scrape my front splitters. But looking at OP's drop, it doesn't look that low. Are the suspension completely different from the M235? Maybe with the M235 being heavier, the OP's drop is not so excessive. Here's mine with stock springs.
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      04-22-2016, 11:31 AM   #19
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Dinan drop (on the 228i anyway) is only 1/2" F/R but you'd still have to be VERY careful over bumps, ramps and driveways with that splitter, especially when a 45-degree approach is not available.
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      04-22-2016, 03:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
Well, thanks for giving me credit but more importantly, I'm glad you are happy with your car's stance now. Are you going to get springs and drop it a little?
I'm probably going to keep it at stock ride height, it's a lease so I'm not trying to do anything too drastic to it. I'll take some pictures next time she's all cleaned up.
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