[AndoOKC]

What will it take (hardware/software) to turn the M2 into a flexfuel vehicle. Injectors? Downpipes? Fuel pumps? Intakes? or can it be done on just JB4 alone?

My last ride required all the things below to get it flex fuel.

2013 Nissan GTR - FBO E85 Flex Fuel (SOLD)
resonated midpipe
non-catted downpipes
Stock exhaust
HKS denso 195 lph fuel pumps
Fuel Injector Clinic 900 cc High-Z injectors
Gotboost 3" intakes with green filters
EcuTek tuned by John Visconti
Visconti Tuning flex fuel kit

As an aside, the M2 is actually more fun than the GTR when doing anything other than just straightline acceleration. The GTR does handle ALOT better but thats expected. However, the M2 is so lightweight and nimble that its a pleasure to drive at any speed and anywhere in the powerband. Under 4000 RPM the GTR was just boring. Im a really huge fan of this vehicle. It could use more power though.

[ashburyn54]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

What will it take (hardware/software) to turn the M2 into a flexfuel vehicle. Injectors? Downpipes? Fuel pumps? Intakes? or can it be done on just JB4 alone?

My last ride required all the things below to get it flex fuel.

2013 Nissan GTR - FBO E85 Flex Fuel (SOLD)
resonated midpipe
non-catted downpipes
Stock exhaust
HKS denso 195 lph fuel pumps
Fuel Injector Clinic 900 cc High-Z injectors
Gotboost 3" intakes with green filters
EcuTek tuned by John Visconti
Visconti Tuning flex fuel kit

As an aside, the M2 is actually more fun than the GTR when doing anything other than just straightline acceleration. The GTR does handle ALOT better but thats expected. However, the M2 is so lightweight and nimble that its a pleasure to drive at any speed and anywhere in the powerband. Under 4000 RPM the GTR was just boring. Im a really huge fan of this vehicle. It could use more power though.

It won't need any exhaust modifications as those don't effect fuel supply unless your changing some 02 parameters.

It will run e30 right now. To run full e85 you need fuel-it stage 2 or 3 LPFP. With Throttle body injection you might be able to get away with it running stockish boost. Port injection it your running high boost. Like pure stage 2 530whp+.

Jb4 or equivalent(doesn't exist) for logging and flex fuel adapter that comes with it. Flash tune down the road for changing the fuel scalers and load targets.

[AndoOKC]

So how do you know when you have E30. My GTR told me on my dash display the exact percentage of ethanol in the tank. I pretty much ran E85 only. unfortunately the blend here in my state never exceeded E68. Injectors and fuel pumps were an absolute must as were 3" intakes (and obligatory matching downpipes) due to the significantly increased fueling.

Also, with the GTR the ECU of course had to be tuned with a dynamically scaling software that read the ethanol content analyzer and automatically adjusted the tuning based on that. How does it work with a JB4 or even an ECU tune on this platform? I pretty much never had to switch maps unless I wanted to play with boost off the line.

So my assumption (please correct me if Im wrong) is that if I want to piggy back with JB4 and run E30 then all I have to do is switch to the proper map and guesstimate the ethanol content by manually mixing 91 (E10) and E85 (actually E68) ?

How sophisticated are ECU tunes on this platform? EcuTek is pretty much my personal gold standard (excluding standalone ECUs like Syvecs).

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get more details on this platform before diving into mods. This is my first German car ever.

[ashburyn54]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

So how do you know when you have E30. My GTR told me on my dash display the exact percentage of ethanol in the tank. I pretty much ran E85 only. unfortunately the blend here in my state never exceeded E68. Injectors and fuel pumps were an absolute must as were 3" intakes (and obligatory matching downpipes) due to the significantly increased fueling.

Also, with the GTR the ECU of course had to be tuned with a dynamically scaling software that read the ethanol content analyzer and automatically adjusted the tuning based on that. How does it work with a JB4 or even an ECU tune on this platform? I pretty much never had to switch maps unless I wanted to play with boost off the line.

So my assumption (please correct me if Im wrong) is that if I want to piggy back with JB4 and run E30 then all I have to do is switch to the proper map and guesstimate the ethanol content by manually mixing 91 (E10) and E85 (actually E68) ?

How sophisticated are ECU tunes on this platform? EcuTek is pretty much my personal gold standard (excluding standalone ECUs like Syvecs).

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get more details on this platform before diving into mods. This is my first German car ever.

No problem! I'm no expert but I'm just speaking from my knowledge of owning both the n54 and n55 as well as research. You can get an ethanol display from fuel-it! As well. An e30 blend is a few gallons of E mixed with 93. There's an online calculator.

Jb4 can adjust your fuel trims to bring up the LPFP that in turn feeds more fuel into your HPFP. Supplemental port injection is needed to run full e85 as the HPFP runs out of steam with higher boost.

Of course a downpipe and intake is a good idea but it's not needed on this platform to simply run e85. I would do it anyways. The injectors are fine. I'm not sure if your choice tuner can crack the f series DME. Although you can always ask. N54 and n55 tuners use a flash tune to dial in the fuel scalers, timing and load targets just like any other tune.

As far a Jb4 you'll want to run map4 stock bypass and log 93 vs your e30 blend. Map 5 has always been the autotune map. You'll just want to watch your trims and HPFP to make sure they don't dip. Low trims and high HPFP is what you want.

Overall, I'm not sure what kind of power your after. If you want something above 500whp the basics are..FBO including JB4, Pure stage 2 upgraded turbo, LPFP upgrade and port injection. You can reach those numbers with meth and other tricks but e85 is more reliable, better for knock suppression and brings those cylinder temps down really well.

[AndoOKC]

Thanks for the great information. Man ive stared at about 100 logs on my GTR as I tried to wrestle with high IDCs and missing my target AFRs. The car ran rich until the day I sold it. but was very reliable otherwise and most parameters were where you would want them.

So to run E30...all I need AT MINIMUM is a JB4. Is that correct?

I assume larger diameter intakes will require an ECU tune or will the JB4 compensate? I guess Im not quite sure how far JB4 can take you when chance the air flow specs and fueling demands.

Also, what is fuel-it?

Thanks again for all your help.

[FSociety]

Luminous cryptocar can chime in

[cryptocar]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

Thanks for the great information. Man ive stared at about 100 logs on my GTR as I tried to wrestle with high IDCs and missing my target AFRs. The car ran rich until the day I sold it. but was very reliable otherwise and most parameters were where you would want them.

So to run E30...all I need AT MINIMUM is a JB4. Is that correct?

I assume larger diameter intakes will require an ECU tune or will the JB4 compensate? I guess Im not quite sure how far JB4 can take you when chance the air flow specs and fueling demands.

Also, what is fuel-it?

Thanks again for all your help.

Let me preface this by saying I've never really run E mixes, I went straight from pump 93 to full E85 and methanol injection. So someone else may be able to better answer questions about E mixes. Also it makes a big difference if you have an EWG (electronic wastegate) turbo or a PWG (pneumatic wastegate) turbo. BMW switched from PWG turbos to EWG turbos around production month 06/2013. The following thread is very informative and helpful if you have an EWG turbo and although Terry says PWG users should ignore it, it still contains very valuable information about E mixes in the N55. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=539

A JB4 is always a great start. It can give you instant gains of ~60WHP with no supporting mods, or 100WHP with full bolt-ons. You'll need a tune of some sort to really gain anything significant from any other mods or fuels and since flash tunes are quite expensive, a JB4 is a great entry level piggyback that can carry you from your first mod to your last. I still use my JB4 for a majority of my parameters and only use my ECU flash tune for a few key parameters the JB4 can't touch, and I'm running 550+ WHP (600+ BHP)on full E85 with nitro and meth injection. It also provides the indispensable ability to datalog and capture the ECU information in realtime for tuning purposes.

No tune is needed to run larger intakes; there are sporadic reports that intakes such as BMS's will cause a CEL with no tune, but I nor any of my friends have ever had this issue. A larger intake is really not going to do any good for you unless you have a tune because the stock intake box is not particularly restrictive until you start running higher levels of boost than stock anyway. Also many people dispute the necessity of a CAI and say all you really end up paying for is the intake new sound. A CAI was my third mod after an exhaust and tune and I still have the same AFe intake as I installed last year and I love it, I'm running 25+ psi so there's no doubt a larger intake is needed but in my early days it really just made a cooler sound than the stock intake.

Fuel-It is a company run by an awesome guy named Steve. He has been providing fueling solutions to some of the highest powered N54's and N55's on the road and the track. One of his highest selling mods for the N55 is a LPFP (low pressure fuel pump) that goes in the fuel tank to supply fuel to the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) or additional injectors you may install in the form of a PI (port injection) kit that has 6 injectors placed on a spacer between the the intake runners and manifold, Fuel-It makes one as does PDU (I have PDU's and it's awesome), or a TBI (throttle body injection) kit also sold by Fuel-It, that places a spacer with injectors after the throttle body before the manifold. The N55 stock LPFP cannot supply enough fuel to the HPFP in high ethanol fueling setups, because a much greater volume of ethanol is required to burn to create the same power as an equal volume of gasoline. This depends on the car but the HPFP fuel starvation issues can begin as low as E35-40 in some cases. Steve's Stage 2 LPFPs solve this issue, though with larger turbos or other high boost applications, additional injectors in the form of a PI kit or TBI are required along with new larger 3/8" fuel lines from the fuel tank to the HPFP and port injection kit if applicable. Steve also sells fuel line kits specific to the N55 and has also added the option of adding an inline Ethanol sensor to the larger fuel lines. There's 2 versions of the sensor: one with built in Bluetooth technology that syncs to the Fuel-It app on your phone that reads E%, fuel temperature, and includes an E calculator for fill-ups. The other version is integrated with a JB4 which can also be viewed on the JB4 app, but last I checked you must choose between ethanol integration or methanol injection of you go the JB4 route. Personally I use the standalone BT app because I still use my meth kit to inject nitro on the track.

[Edit: Sorry if I was dumbing things down too much or accidentally glazing over some more important info, It was a long post and I wanted it to be comprehensive for all forum members to gain from.]

[ashburyn54]

Originally Posted by cryptocar

Let me preface this by saying I've never really run E mixes, I went straight from pump 93 to full E85 and methanol injection. So someone else may be able to better answer questions about E mixes. Also it makes a big difference if you have an EWG (electronic wastegate) turbo or a PWG (pneumatic wastegate) turbo. BMW switched from PWG turbos to EWG turbos around production month 06/2013. The following thread is very informative and helpful if you have an EWG turbo and although Terry says PWG users should ignore it, it still contains very valuable information about E mixes in the N55. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=539

A JB4 is always a great start. It can give you instant gains of ~60WHP with no supporting mods, or 100WHP with full bolt-ons. You'll need a tune of some sort to really gain anything significant from any other mods or fuels and since flash tunes are quite expensive, a JB4 is a great entry level piggyback that can carry you from your first mod to your last. I still use my JB4 for a majority of my parameters and only use my ECU flash tune for a few key parameters the JB4 can't touch, and I'm running 550+ WHP (600+ BHP)on full E85 with nitro and meth injection. It also provides the indispensable ability to datalog and capture the ECU information in realtime for tuning purposes.

No tune is needed to run larger intakes; there are sporadic reports that intakes such as BMS's will cause a CEL with no tune, but I nor any of my friends have ever had this issue. A larger intake is really not going to do any good for you unless you have a tune because the stock intake box is not particularly restrictive until you start running higher levels of boost than stock anyway. Also many people dispute the necessity of a CAI and say all you really end up paying for is the intake new sound. A CAI was my third mod after an exhaust and tune and I still have the same AFe intake as I installed last year and I love it, I'm running 25+ psi so there's no doubt a larger intake is needed but in my early days it really just made a cooler sound than the stock intake.

Fuel-It is a company run by an awesome guy named Steve. He has been providing fueling solutions to some of the highest powered N54's and N55's on the road and the track. One of his highest selling mods for the N55 is a LPFP (low pressure fuel pump) that goes in the fuel tank to supply fuel to the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) or additional injectors you may install in the form of a PI (port injection) kit that has 6 injectors placed on a spacer between the the intake runners and manifold, Fuel-It makes one as does PDU (I have PDU's and it's awesome), or a TBI (throttle body injection) kit also sold by Fuel-It, that places a spacer with injectors after the throttle body before the manifold. The N55 stock LPFP cannot supply enough fuel to the HPFP in high ethanol fueling setups, because a much greater volume of ethanol is required to burn to create the same power as an equal volume of gasoline. This depends on the car but the HPFP fuel starvation issues can begin as low as E35-40 in some cases. Steve's Stage 2 LPFPs solve this issue, though with larger turbos or other high boost applications, additional injectors in the form of a PI kit or TBI are required along with new larger 3/8" fuel lines from the fuel tank to the HPFP and port injection kit if applicable. Steve also sells fuel line kits specific to the N55 and has also added the option of adding an inline Ethanol sensor to the larger fuel lines. There's 2 versions of the sensor: one with built in Bluetooth technology that syncs to the Fuel-It app on your phone that reads E%, fuel temperature, and includes an E calculator for fill-ups. The other version is integrated with a JB4 which can also be viewed on the JB4 app, but last I checked you must choose between ethanol integration or methanol injection of you go the JB4 route. Personally I use the standalone BT app because I still use my meth kit to inject nitro on the track.

[Edit: Sorry if I was dumbing things down too much or accidentally glazing over some more important info, It was a long post and I wanted it to be comprehensive for all forum members to gain from.]

Great post! Thanks for adding clarification to my posts. Much more detailed. This should be an e85 use thread starter.

[d k]

What you will need is an analyzer that measures ethanol content and a way to send a signal (0-5V) to the ecu.
This signal neds to be calibrated and properly tuned to provide additional fuel to achieve the correct ratio. Ethanol requires around 30% more fuel to achieve the proper afr.

Keep in mind you will run out of injctors (or fuel pump) sooner when you are on corn juice.

[cryptocar]

Originally Posted by d k

What you will need is an analyzer that measures ethanol content and a way to send a signal (0-5V) to the ecu.
This signal neds to be calibrated and properly tuned to provide additional fuel to achieve the correct ratio. Ethanol requires around 30% more fuel to achieve the proper afr.

Keep in mind you will run out of injctors (or fuel pump) sooner when you are on corn juice.

Also keep in mind there is a large margin for error (5-10%) in the accuracy of the E sensors. I've used never seen it read above E73 and that's even after a couple tanks of pure E85 and C85.

[AndoOKC]

that's why it's important to corroborate your local e85 gas station with a second methodology. there are lots of ethanol test kits available online but of course those are manual and require that your are very accurate in your measurements.

[cryptocar]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

that's why it's important to corroborate your local e85 gas station with a second methodology. there are lots of ethanol test kits available online but of course those are manual and require that your are very accurate in your measurements.

My point was more about the inaccuracy of the sensor since the C85 I had was a 55 gallon drum direct from VP racing fuels and I have no reason to believe that specialty race fuel was any less than 85% ethanol. But yes it's important to know what actual % you get at the pump especially if you live in a region like me that gets the "winter mixes" which can be as low as E60 in some cases during the cold seasons. Also other factors can contribute to higher E% readings since E sensors do not actually detect ethanol, rather they detect the absence of gasoline since gasoline is dielectric and ethanol conducts electricity. Some other additives in gasoline such as heet can lead to higher than actual E% readings on an E sensor.

[AndoOKC]

don't forget the hygroscopoic nature of E85 attracts water quite vigorously. in my lab we have absolute ethanol (E100) and it is very hard to keep it at E100 as the container gets more and more empty which is why it's important to keep your tank full of e85 rather than half full which would increase the chances of water absorption and hydrolock of the injectors.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

don't forget the hygroscopoic nature of E85 attracts water quite vigorously. in my lab we have absolute ethanol (E100) and it is very hard to keep it at E100 as the container gets more and more empty which is why it's important to keep your tank full of e85 rather than half full which would increase the chances of water absorption and hydrolock of the injectors.

you hear that Luminous bryan_f22

[cryptocar]

Originally Posted by AndoOKC

don't forget the hygroscopoic nature of E85 attracts water quite vigorously. in my lab we have absolute ethanol (E100) and it is very hard to keep it at E100 as the container gets more and more empty which is why it's important to keep your tank full of e85 rather than half full which would increase the chances of water absorption and hydrolock of the injectors.

There are also fuel additives such as some variants of STA-BIL and other "ethanol stabilizers" that specifically designed to help with this issue.

[AndoOKC]

YMMV, the blends and additives are so variable from gas station to gas station. I never had a problem personally when running E85 but if you lived in a humid climate and had a quarter tank and left the car for several weeks you may have problems. I know it happened to some GTR owners who drove their cars infrequently.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by cryptocar

There are also fuel additives such as some variants of STA-BIL and other "ethanol stabilizers" that specifically designed to help with this issue.

I did some research on this this weekend because I needed to fill up my boat and all the ethonol free gas stations in were out of fuel, I guess everyone was filling their boats up getting ready for the 4th. Anyway, from what I have read it seems that adding additives to help with this is more of a myth than fact. Have you seen any tests that prove the fact that additives will help with e fuel water issue? Thanks. Not trying to say your wrong, just want to know because I ended up using e10 fuel in my boat and don't want to have any issues.

[cryptocar]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I did some research on this this weekend because I needed to fill up my boat and all the ethonol free gas stations in were out of fuel, I guess everyone was filling their boats up getting ready for the 4th. Anyway, from what I have read it seems that adding additives to help with this is more of a myth than fact. Have you seen any tests that prove the fact that additives will help with e fuel water issue? Thanks. Not trying to say your wrong, just want to know because I ended up using e10 fuel in my boat and don't want to have any issues.

I read up on this quite a bit and there appear to be just as many "myths debunked" posted for and against additives. Clearly there is a conflict of interest as engine manufacturers don't want to take the blame for a poor additive since there's so many out there but also the additive manufacturers are trying to sell their products. I've never used any of these additives though I have a small bottle of liquid performance ethanol equalizer. Both the additive I have and the ones from STA-BIL are highly reviewed by customers on Amazon. Again there may be company shilling in effect there, as is the nature of all customer reviews, but from what I've read it appears that there is a net positive take on ethanol storage/stabilizer additives available on the Internet. That said always do your own research and determine what is best for your specific application. Also marine applications are really a different animal all together since the water condensation and seepage are greatly exaggerated compared to street vehicles. For my boat and PWCs I only use 95 octane marine fuel E0 available at my local harbor and fill my 255HP supercharged PWC with 98 octane E0 when I can get it from my local racetrack for a little extra power.