[zer0cool]

So by almost all accounts the new 7 is a flop. Reviewers almost universally prefer the S class. The new 7 has been called boring, uninspired, little changed from before, too much like a 3 series, with gimmick and useless tech. Recent articles point to very low sales figures for the new 7, significantly below S class, resulting in huge discounts averaging over 13k per car (see BBG article http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...in-luxury-race).

I think most importantly, BMW attempted to build a luxury car to compete with MB and obviously has failed. BMW simply cannot build a luxury car as luxurious as the S class even if its life depended on it. This is because that's simply not BMW's DNA.

To be honest, I am concerned about the new 5. It looks just like a smaller 7 so far. The interior looks like a smaller 7 as well, and honestly doesn't look much different form the current 5 except for the now universal tablet on the dash. The exterior design evolution appears boring, kind of like the new A4. But at least the interior design of the A4 improved by leaps and bounds. However leaked 5 interior pics appear to indicate that's not the case for the BMW.

The only way I think the 5 won't flop like the 7 is if BMW go and try to make the 5 more of a sports sedan. With the decrease in weight and increase in engine power, BMW needs to go back to its roots and make the new 5 a better driving machine than the outgoing 5. If BMW tries to make the 5 compete with the new E on luxury. I am sorry, it just doesn't compete. With an interior that hasn't really changed in years, it just can't compete with the new E class. BMW's soul is not luxury, but driving experience, and the new 5 needs to be optimized for that.

I hope the 5 turns out well. I owned a 2014, and if the new 5 is a better driving machine, I may consider getting one again (I don't like large luxury barges and probably won't get a 7 or S in the foreseeable future).

[remmib]

Do have sales numbers? I'm sure the S-class sells more, but that's normal I guess.

[SCOTT26]

The 7er is by no means a flop.
How can you state this when the car has not been on sale in most markets since early this year when everybody else had the launch in late October.
The range is not complete also with the arrival of the 740e,750d and the M760Li imminent.
How can you compare the 7er with the S-Klasse when S-Klasse sales include all S-Klasse models available?

The F10 5er remains as the best selling car in the business segment with over 2 million sold of this generation.
The new car answers the questions customers asked that it remain familiar,but be more dynamically involving,technologically advanced and luxurious depending on what model line is chosen.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The 7er is by no means a flop.
How can you state this when the car has not been on sale in most markets since early this year when everybody else had the launch in late October.
The range is not complete also with the arrival of the 740e,750d and the M760Li imminent.
How can you compare the 7er with the S-Klasse when S-Klasse sales include all S-Klasse models available?

The F10 5er remains as the best selling car in the business segment with over 2 million sold of this generation.
The new car answers the questions customers asked that it remain familiar,but be more dynamically involving,technologically advanced and luxurious depending on what model line is chosen.

Well in all fairness the 7er doesn't have the same luxurious feeling and quality the S-class has. The 7er's interior looks like a grown up 3-series. Something we've seen since 2012. The S-class feels and looks like something on a more expensive level then what the 7er provides. BMW had two years to blow the S-class out of the water and personally they failed. I'm not the only one who thinks this either.

[Zirenz2006]

yeah big flop...they should just stop making the 7

all hail the S class

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport

Well in all fairness the 7er doesn't have the same luxurious feeling and quality the S-class has. The 7er's interior looks like a grown up 3-series. Something we've seen since 2012. The S-class feels and looks like something on a more expensive level then what the 7er provides. BMW had two years to blow the S-class out of the water and personally they failed. I'm not the only one who thinks this either.

Judging by this I can tell you have not been in a 7er. Quality is very much on a par with the S-Klasse. Such as the 7er use of laser etched iconography on the aluminium switchgear its not plastic.
The dash design reflects the optimum use of space in regards to the minimal amount of switchgear that has been replaced by the iDrive interface. The s-Klasse facia is more slab fronted compared to the more open 7er. And like every single 7er since the very first E23 its always been favoured as the more driver orientated vehicle compared to the S-Klasse where the benefits still are gained by being a passenger in the rear.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Judging by this I can tell you have not been in a 7er. Quality is very much on a par with the S-Klasse. Such as the 7er use of laser etched iconography on the aluminium switchgear its not plastic.
The dash design reflects the optimum use of space in regards to the minimal amount of switchgear that has been replaced by the iDrive interface. The s-Klasse facia is more slab fronted compared to the more open 7er. And like every single 7er since the very first E23 its always been favoured as the more driver orientated vehicle compared to the S-Klasse where the benefits still are gained by being a passenger in the rear.

Actually I have driven the new 7-series many times since I work for an Auto Group. Quality is close but still doesn't feel as special as the S-class. Design in the interior doesn't feel special at all. It looks like they took the 3-series interior and dressed it up with nicer materials and switch gear. The 7-series in the USA consistently trails the S-class in sales. People speak with their money. BMW could have done a much better job. This looks like the worlds laziest redesign.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport

Actually I have driven the new 7-series many times since I work for an Auto Group. Quality is close but still doesn't feel as special as the S-class. Design in the interior doesn't feel special at all. It looks like they took the 3-series interior and dressed it up with nicer materials and switch gear. The 7-series in the USA consistently trails the S-class in sales. People speak with their money. BMW could have done a much better job. This looks like the worlds laziest redesign.

Of course it will Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse sales incorporate Coupe,Cabrio and Maybach models all under the S-Klasse.
Take them away and in some markets the 7er is beating the Standard S-Klasse or equaling sales.
Take Germany as an example the 7er is the leader in its segment.

[hinckley]

I've just stepped out of an S Class and I can tell you that the 7er's feeling of pure luxury isn't even comparable. That wouldn't really bother me though if BMW had remained true to its sporting heritage. But when it dumbed down its traditional performance handling, BMW became sort of a eunuch. Nothing really. I love the brand. I hope to get back into the brand, but they've first got to decide what they represent.

[DDD31]

I got a chance to drive both the new 7er and Mercedes S-Class at this summer's Drive for a Cause event. The 7er was definitely a better driving car and felt more agile than the S-Class. The transmission was also much better in the 7er with more authoritative shifts and less lag. I also felt that the interior of the 7er was fairly luxurious and had better tech than the S-Class.

However, driving the S-Class, you really felt like it was an expensive car and was on a whole different level luxury wise. Driving the S-Class made me feel like I had finally made it in life where the 7er felt like i was driving a bigger and nicer 5 series.

If I was going to buy a car in this class, even though it pains me to say it, I would definitely go with the S-Class. Driving the S-Class you really feel like you're in a special car.

As other posters have said, BMW needs to stick with making sporting models and leave luxury models to Mercedes, BMW isn't even close in the luxury market.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by DDD31

I got a chance to drive both the new 7er and Mercedes S-Class at this summer's Drive for a Cause event. The 7er was definitely a better driving car and felt more agile than the S-Class. The transmission was also much better in the 7er with more authoritative shifts and less lag. I also felt that the interior of the 7er was fairly luxurious and had better tech than the S-Class.

However, driving the S-Class, you really felt like it was an expensive car and was on a whole different level luxury wise. Driving the S-Class made me feel like I had finally made it in life where the 7er felt like i was driving a bigger and nicer 5 series.

If I was going to buy a car in this class, even though it pains me to say it, I would definitely go with the S-Class. Driving the S-Class you really feel like you're in a special car.

As other posters have said, BMW needs to stick with making sporting models and leave luxury models to Mercedes, BMW isn't even close in the luxury market.

I second that. 100% spot on.

[pharding]

I also believe that BMW hurt the 7er by only bringing the L version to the US with its heavier price tag.

[MattTheCarNut]

As an avid runner in Houston, TX, I often spot many premium cars fleeing downtown on Allen Parkway making their way home.

The S-Classes road presence is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above the 7-Series. The S-Class has this neat reverse-rake stance (similar to Rolls Royce) where it seems to prance or glide down the road with its nose in the air. It really makes observers take note. The 7-Series, by comparison, is completely MEH. No presence at all.

Obviously, this has nothing to do with luxury. Just my car-nut observation on the two...

[Inablur]

Not to rain on scott's parade, just throwing another spanner in the works...

[Zirenz2006]

Never understood all the teet suckling for the S Class. That interior is vile IMO.

[vladberca]

Originally Posted by Inablur

Not to rain on scott's parade, just throwing another spanner in the works...

This is a totally crap review.

[Inablur]

Originally Posted by vladberca

This is a totally crap review.

k

[scoobysaurus]

The only time the 7 was a more desirable car than the S-class was when the E38 and E65 were still around. E38 was the most gorgeous car its segment while the bold and imposing E65 outclassed Merc's W220 in the "boss car" department IMHO. The F01 and and G11 are really nice cars but they don't really push the envolope in any way and don't have significant USP's like their predecessors to help them win against the W221 and W222 respectively.

I'm hoping the new 8 series proves that BMW is still capable of making a bold ride that can out-class the S-class.

[R N M]

In NYC - the capital for these cars that are chauffeur driven, i see maybe 1 7series for every 10 Sclass cars.

The new car looks goofy and something from Hyundai/Kia with oversized headlights and other gimmick styling.

[ArchJR]

Originally Posted by Zirenz2006

Never understood all the teet suckling for the S Class. That interior is vile IMO.

What you (and I) see as vile, others see as the trappings of luxury and wealth. And frankly, 7-series is a bit vile itself with the shiny metal bits around the climate controls, headlight controls and all over the steering wheel. I hope the G30 is less bejeweled inside.

[cracker123]

Had a chance to test drive the 7 for a weekend and was not that impressed, being a BMW person I would take it over the S class. BMW should have pushed the design boundaries on the car. But I felt they installed a lot of gimmicks to overcome the lack of any major innovations besides Carbon Core. I am a bit disappointed about the new 7 series.

[VWtoBMW]

Although they fight for the same market, the 7 and the S are different cars. I've driven a 2016 S550 extensively earlier this year and for what it is, it's great, but it's NOT nimble agile or fun to drive. Not in any way.

When I got back in my 2013 750i, where most would say that this car is outdated, it drive so much better. I was happy to get back in it. When I drove a G01 750i, I felt it was more of what I wanted in a car... closer to what my current vehicle gives me which I thoroughly enjoy. S550? Aside from the seats, I did not enjoy it one bit.... even the command nav interface (sharp graphics aside) was a dog. So slow. It left like a Windows PC with file system errors versus a MacBook Pro.

Again, different cars.

One the first model year works its way out, and any bugs addressed, I will be getting one. Until there, I still love my car.

But again, opinions are like a holes.