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      10-20-2016, 02:44 AM   #1
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G30 Rear Turn Indicators - Possible to have orange in US?

I've noticed that the European spec G30's have orange turn indicators on the rear just like the front. Is it possible to have that in the US also?
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      10-20-2016, 03:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colbertnation
I've noticed that the European spec G30's have orange turn indicators on the rear just like the front. Is it possible to have that in the US also?
There is a POSSIBILITY they'll come with amber indicators on US cars from launch and I stress this is not a very strong likelihood right now.

There are 3 MAJOR automotive specification standards changes very near to the final vote and agreements.

1. First major revision to US DOT FMVSS (108 Lighting is included) since the 70's. The lighting changes include Amber Turn Signals at the rear, SAE Forward Lighting Standard J3069_201606 - Adaptive Driving Beam which is now complete and issued. This is tied into the minimum equipment required to obtain 5* rating.

2. United Nations Global Vehicle Standards - This G7 Member plus specific non veto holding Committee group that will replace UNECE and regulate a fully harmonized world standard. This is a huge and monumental change for those who love cars. Two days ago, the committee voted to include, Elimination of the ECE and SAE type name and begin to use UN base and differential recognition for LHD and RHD. How is this good for enthusiasts? Want a touring in the US? As long as #3 occurs too or one has deep pockets, it will be a very quick process.

3. TTIP - TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership - This very large, controversial, and Highly Secret Closed door initiative between the EU and US. Its agreement has been stalled from 2014 too now 2019.

Success to very near term agreements on these is 100% at risk due to potential Partisan Politics in the US.

#1 This is one is the most likely to occur first and should have final revision session the first week of JAN.

#2 US and EU cars would be the same. and billions of dollars will be saved. However This too is at risk in the possibility DT wins.

#3 A few representatives have willingly breached the security requirements to Specifically condemn Donald Trump for derogatory comments. They will cease Foreign Trade Interests with the US.
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      10-20-2016, 06:19 AM   #3
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ughhh....I hate rear amber turn signals
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      10-20-2016, 07:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirenz2006
ughhh....I hate rear amber turn signals
There might be a solution for that too. If the first run are red even easier.
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      10-20-2016, 11:55 AM   #5
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Thank you for that detailed reply!

So for now, do you think it's safe to assume that if you build from factory the first batch (Nov 2016 or Dec 2016 for delivery February 2017), it'll be red rear turn lights?

I really want the orange rear turn lights.
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      10-20-2016, 12:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colbertnation View Post
Thank you for that detailed reply!

So for now, do you think it's safe to assume that if you build from factory the first batch (Nov 2016 or Dec 2016 for delivery February 2017), it'll be red rear turn lights?

I really want the orange rear turn lights.
That's the million dollar question. The NCAP 5* addition will begin with MY2018 but manufacturers could begin implementing before or after passage of the resolution. The color itself poses no issue at this minute. The antique minimum output surface area is; nothing more nothing less. So the questions are:

As a manufacturer, spend over $10million additional in development costs for something different to cover 11 months at which point it would be changed?

Spend the same amount in addition to cover the next indeterminate period but recover the costs in the first 18mos?

I personally wouldn't order now solely due to the availability of many things After the demo pool has been fulfilled. And order everything possible you'll want within the budget. Some big red flags today regarding personal customization with certain SYStems.
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      10-20-2016, 10:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colbertnation View Post
Thank you for that detailed reply!

So for now, do you think it's safe to assume that if you build from factory the first batch (Nov 2016 or Dec 2016 for delivery February 2017), it'll be red rear turn lights?

I really want the orange rear turn lights.
I'm with you. Hopefully these standards get resolved soon and it's a thing of the past.
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      10-25-2016, 05:52 PM   #8
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Even if they are red, you can just order Euro Spec Tails and have amber turn signals.

I have been doing this for years now.

N. America is pretty much the only place where silly red turn signals are allowed.
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      10-25-2016, 11:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Even if they are red, you can just order Euro Spec Tails and have amber turn signals.

I have been doing this for years now.

N. America is pretty much the only place where silly red turn signals are allowed.
Was that a thing? When we were ordering our 550i xDrive, the CA was not able to get the Euro Spec Tails (he did get 4-Zone Climate Control as a special order option though) so we had to buy the lights separately from the BMW dealership in Munich.
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      10-26-2016, 12:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretanchitman
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Even if they are red, you can just order Euro Spec Tails and have amber turn signals.

I have been doing this for years now.

N. America is pretty much the only place where silly red turn signals are allowed.
Was that a thing? When we were ordering our 550i xDrive, the CA was not able to get the Euro Spec Tails (he did get 4-Zone Climate Control as a special order option though) so we had to buy the lights separately from the BMW dealership in Munich.
Not as a factory option. TTG was referring to what you did.

Did catch a very short glimpse of a US Spec mule in full camo while the rear indicator flashed once. It was amber but no guarantee given this will remain. Production spec Demo/press/display cars should be on their way if not already on the ground. That's really the only way to know of BMW is going to take advantage of early credits towards NCAP.
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      10-26-2016, 12:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretanchitman View Post
Was that a thing? When we were ordering our 550i xDrive, the CA was not able to get the Euro Spec Tails (he did get 4-Zone Climate Control as a special order option though) so we had to buy the lights separately from the BMW dealership in Munich.
Yes. I get them imported from Europe but there are plenty of vendors like ECS tuning that will carry them as well.

Unfortunately, it is not something that we can order from factory when ordering the car.

I just got a F10 535 and the days of its red indicators are limited
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      11-03-2016, 12:16 PM   #12
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Anyone know if there's any new word on BMW bringing orange/amber rear turn signals to G30?
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      11-05-2016, 03:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Even if they are red, you can just order Euro Spec Tails and have amber turn signals.

I have been doing this for years now.

N. America is pretty much the only place where silly red turn signals are allowed.
Exactly. WTF are red indicators all about - where is the logic in having these look like brake lights when the point of lighting is to give warning/indication of planned driving manoeuvres.

Silly is the best word to describe.
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      11-08-2016, 11:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahajesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Even if they are red, you can just order Euro Spec Tails and have amber turn signals.

I have been doing this for years now.

N. America is pretty much the only place where silly red turn signals are allowed.
Exactly. WTF are red indicators all about - where is the logic in having these look like brake lights when the point of lighting is to give warning/indication of planned driving manoeuvres.

Silly is the best word to describe.
NHTSA's logic until recently with FMVSS standards had been the size of the indicator surface area rather than just lumens or color.

As LED's have become more common, the luminous output has increased while the diodes themselves have shrunk. Under UN Regulations (what most know as ECE) it's color and intensity so fewer and brighter diodes meet the regulations. This allows more design flexibility, enhanced functions such as dynamic (wiping/sequential) indicators with less expense (Automotive Amber Spectrum LED's are fairly expensive in comparison to Red and other colors that can use a red lens). The F10 uses 14 OSRAM Golden Dragon arrays for the rear signals for example, and it's 2x's the cost for red vs amber. Since there is no regulatory demand or incentive to justify the cost of Amber, red is used instead.

One drawback is a number of US market Vehicles have absurdly bright LED Brake Lights and or Turn Signals since only a minimum luminous output is calculated based on surface area.

Beginning next year, FMVSS NCAP Safety Ratings begin to change and Amber Turn Signals based on luminous output and dynamic functions earn credit towards the Star Ratings. In 2018, these become mandatory for MY2019 Vehicles.
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      11-08-2016, 11:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colbertnation
Anyone know if there's any new word on BMW bringing orange/amber rear turn signals to G30?
I've asked someone who is receiving a Production Spec G30 next week to confirm. So far I've only seen Amber but these were all Pre-Series Customer Production Conformity Vehicles.
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      11-08-2016, 11:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
NHTSA's logic until recently with FMVSS standards had been the size of the indicator surface area rather than just lumens or color.

As LED's have become more common, the luminous output has increased while the diodes themselves have shrunk. Under UN Regulations (what most know as ECE) it's color and intensity so fewer and brighter diodes meet the regulations. This allows more design flexibility, enhanced functions such as dynamic (wiping/sequential) indicators with less expense (Automotive Amber Spectrum LED's are fairly expensive in comparison to Red and other colors that can use a red lens). The F10 uses 14 OSRAM Golden Dragon arrays for the rear signals for example, and it's 2x's the cost for red vs amber. Since there is no regulatory demand or incentive to justify the cost of Amber, red is used instead.

One drawback is a number of US market Vehicles have absurdly bright LED Brake Lights and or Turn Signals since only a minimum luminous output is calculated based on surface area.

Beginning next year, FMVSS NCAP Safety Ratings begin to change and Amber Turn Signals based on luminous output and dynamic functions earn credit towards the Star Ratings. In 2018, these become mandatory for MY2019 Vehicles.
Great info Sir! Thank You.
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      11-09-2016, 08:39 AM   #17
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I actually love red turn lights - its a more cohesive look i think. BMW avoids confusion by having the red turn lights be separate from the brake lights, and i think it works fine. Some US manufacturers have the brake and turn lights as the same lights and that can be confusing to people who somehow dont recognize blinking lights when they see them.
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      11-09-2016, 09:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmabmass
BMW avoids confusion by having the red turn lights be separate from the brake lights, and i think it works fine. Some US manufacturers have the brake and turn lights as the same lights and that can be confusing to people who somehow dont recognize blinking lights when they see them.
Not entirely true.

US/CAN F06/12/13 combine the turn signals with the brake lights, but when the indicator is active, only the upper portion flashes. Fxx X5/6 combine brake and indicators for braking and flash both the brake and indicator sections when signaling a turn.
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      11-11-2016, 08:41 PM   #19
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Very interesting lemetier! I did not know any of the additional details.

I hate the turn lights being the brake lights. I was so relieved to see that the combined lights case of X5 wasn't the case with G30.

Keeping up hope that we'll get Amber rear turn lights in the US!
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      11-12-2016, 11:00 AM   #20
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I'm just glad that the G30 has the right configuration. Personally I prefer red blinkers and so I hope the US G30 will stay red for as long as possible!
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      02-02-2017, 11:32 PM   #21
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Any update on this for those who have seen the car in real life in the States? I'm not holding my breath...
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      02-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastula View Post
Any update on this for those who have seen the car in real life in the States? I'm not holding my breath...
Looks amber on this US 540i, but we could be fooled by the camera.

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