Can you delete EGR while retaining DPF?

AzRiz · 12-08-2016, 07:50 AM

Hi guys, getting some mixed info from my research, I wanted to get a remap done and have the EGR disabled in the software in my 330d LCI N57.

However, one good mapper brought it to my attention that deleting the EGR isn't a good idea if retaining the DPF, and having done some research (but not finding very much info) I found it written that this is in fact true: http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.u...emoval-delete/

Please Note:
The EGR Valve should NOT be removed on vehicles that still have the DPF Filter in place, doing so may block the DPF as the EGR Valve operation is a prerequisite for DPF Regeneration.

However, another reputable tuner did not mention that this would be an issue and when I asked him about it, he said that he hasn't had any issues on the ones that he has already done. He does a LOT of maps in the UK and worldwide so I'm surprised that he hasn't warned against such an issue.

Does anybody know if DPF regen relies on a fully functioning EGR valve on our cars?

Thanks in advance.

Hoooper · 12-08-2016, 08:13 AM

Lots of cars out there that ran with a blocked egr and still had dpf without issues. I did for about 60k miles and my dpf was not plugged. However, that seems to be different than tuning it out for some reason.

JTC1 · 12-08-2016, 08:16 AM

I am still running with a DPF, and have a tune that allows the EGR to be open during start up and for Regens only. I think there was someone on the forum who had a DPF problem with the EGR coded out, but I am not sure about that as it was before my time on the forum.

gavronm · 12-08-2016, 08:51 AM

Just spitballing here, but it might have to do with how the tune is done. I ran for over a year with the EGR blocked and the DPF in place. I did not have a tune. I used a CAN tool that I left plugged into the OBD port to automatically clear codes every time I started the car. This worked fine and regens occurred without issue.

The statement about EGR valve operation being a prerequisite for regens may be true. On my car the EGR valve was fully functional, so presumably the EGR valve would open, trip the sensor (or whatever) and the regen would begin. My block plates simply prevented any exhaust gas from recirculating into the intake.

If a tuner merely coded the EGR to remain closed all the time without any other modifications it's possible that regens would not occur if the car in fact needs to "see" that the EGR valve is open. On the other hand, if a tuner is able to program the car so that EGR opening is NOT a prerequisite for regen, or is able to mimic an "EGR valve is open" signal, then regens should still occur as needed.

At the end of the day I would just look for a tuner with experience tuning these cars and lots of happy customers.

AzRiz · 12-08-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Lots of cars out there that ran with a blocked egr and still had dpf without issues. I did for about 60k miles and my dpf was not plugged. However, that seems to be different than tuning it out for some reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTC1

I am still running with a DPF, and have a tune that allows the EGR to be open during start up and for Regens only. I think there was someone on the forum who had a DPF problem with the EGR coded out, but I am not sure about that as it was before my time on the forum.

Thank you for the replies guys, very useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavronm

Just spitballing here, but it might have to do with how the tune is done. I ran for over a year with the EGR blocked and the DPF in place. I did not have a tune. I used a CAN tool that I left plugged into the OBD port to automatically clear codes every time I started the car. This worked fine and regens occurred without issue.

The statement about EGR valve operation being a prerequisite for regens may be true. On my car the EGR valve was fully functional, so presumably the EGR valve would open, trip the sensor (or whatever) and the regen would begin. My block plates simply prevented any exhaust gas from recirculating into the intake.

If a tuner merely coded the EGR to remain closed all the time without any other modifications it's possible that regens would not occur if the car in fact needs to "see" that the EGR valve is open. On the other hand, if a tuner is able to program the car so that EGR opening is NOT a prerequisite for regen, or is able to mimic an "EGR valve is open" signal, then regens should still occur as needed.

At the end of the day I would just look for a tuner with experience tuning these cars and lots of happy customers.

This makes perfect sense. On the N57, the EGR can just be coded out and will stop opening. If your theory is correct which it probably is, this would then cause problems. The solutions you suggest sounds like they would be successful, I'll speak to the tuner to see if he can achieve something that will ensure that DPF regens successfully take place.

Dazza335iC · 12-08-2016, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTC1

I am still running with a DPF, and have a tune that allows the EGR to be open during start up and for Regens only.

This is what I have as well, and IMO it's the best solution. You still get fast warm-ups and ideal DPF regens, but with a 95% reduction in EGR functionality. It's like having your cake and eating it too

Mark M · 12-08-2016, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTC1

I think there was someone on the forum who had a DPF problem with the EGR coded out.

This is correct. From my layman understanding the DDE needs to see functionality of the EGR as a prerequisite for correct DPF regen. This is not in the physical sense, I know many many of us physically block the EGR. Rather this is talking about the software portion.

davegris · 12-08-2016, 01:28 PM

I read somewhere along the line that the throttle body (also called the anti-shudder valve) needs to be working correctly in order for DPF regen to occur.

My car would not regen the DPF even when requested thru Carly. I was getting throttle body related codes. I took the throttle body off and the butterfly in it felt broken... like the shaft was broken from the electric motor.

I read somewhere here that the throttle body partially closes during DPF regen in order to help keep temperatures up for regen process.

I hope to know if it will regen soon with new throttle body in play. I have a new throttle body (and EGR racepipe and assorted other goodies like w/m kit and swirl flap plates) but I took the opportunity to do a CBU clean as my car has ~120k miles. Performance and mileage were both sucking.

Thecastle · 12-10-2016, 09:25 AM

I've been running egr disabled with a dpf for sometime and no issues thus far, except improved fuel economy

AzRiz · 12-12-2016, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazza335iC

This is what I have as well, and IMO it's the best solution. You still get fast warm-ups and ideal DPF regens, but with a 95% reduction in EGR functionality. It's like having your cake and eating it too

Yup sounds good to me, I've asked a couple of tuners if they can do this for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

This is correct. From my layman understanding the DDE needs to see functionality of the EGR as a prerequisite for correct DPF regen. This is not in the physical sense, I know many many of us physically block the EGR. Rather this is talking about the software portion.

Some say this as fact, yet some say otherwise, always annoying when you can't get any guaranteed info

Quote:

Originally Posted by davegris

I read somewhere along the line that the throttle body (also called the anti-shudder valve) needs to be working correctly in order for DPF regen to occur.

My car would not regen the DPF even when requested thru Carly. I was getting throttle body related codes. I took the throttle body off and the butterfly in it felt broken... like the shaft was broken from the electric motor.

I read somewhere here that the throttle body partially closes during DPF regen in order to help keep temperatures up for regen process.

I hope to know if it will regen soon with new throttle body in play. I have a new throttle body (and EGR racepipe and assorted other goodies like w/m kit and swirl flap plates) but I took the opportunity to do a CBU clean as my car has ~120k miles. Performance and mileage were both sucking.

Hopefully you get it sorted man, good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I've been running egr disabled with a dpf for sometime and no issues thus far, except improved fuel economy

Thanks for your input, very useful to know

AzRiz · 12-12-2016, 04:21 AM

So I've spoken to 2 tuners that I would be happy to use (both are known to write very good maps and have been doing it for many years now).

One says that it won't be a problem as he has disabled the EGR on "many many many" cars and had zero DPF issues over the years.

The other one says that he strongly recommends not doing it if keeping the DPF, but he will now do some more detailed research into this topic and see if he can do what you guys are saying above with having the EGR work during cold start and DPF regen only.

Might speak to another couple of tuners for further info/opinions/experience.

If anyone has any more info or experience on this topic, please do join in.

Saroo · 06-12-2020, 07:56 AM

Hi did you ever get to the bottom of this?

Am looking to delete the EGR but leave the DPF in place but seen conflicting information so wanted to know if you ever got to the bottom of this please

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzRiz

So I've spoken to 2 tuners that I would be happy to use (both are known to write very good maps and have been doing it for many years now).

One says that it won't be a problem as he has disabled the EGR on "many many many" cars and had zero DPF issues over the years.

The other one says that he strongly recommends not doing it if keeping the DPF, but he will now do some more detailed research into this topic and see if he can do what you guys are saying above with having the EGR work during cold start and DPF regen only.

Might speak to another couple of tuners for further info/opinions/experience.

If anyone has any more info or experience on this topic, please do join in.

dave330 · 06-12-2020, 06:23 PM

speak to bwchiptune ,they have an excellent reputation for remapping bmw diesels ,infact they recommend leaving the dpf and they can code out the egr and have no problems ,that way the car is still legal and will pass an mot no problem ,once i have sorted a few other issues that's where i'm taking mine.

Yozh · 06-12-2020, 11:19 PM

You guys are looking at an old thread. This is old news.

Davll · 06-12-2020, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saroo

Hi did you ever get to the bottom of this?

Am looking to delete the EGR but leave the DPF in place but seen conflicting information so wanted to know if you ever got to the bottom of this please

Absolutely. For both my previous 335d's JR Stage 2.0 tune, and my current X5d's Malone Stage 2.0 tune, I've been running with EGR/SCR deleted and DPF active.

In my opinion, it's the best of both worlds - the least reliable parts of the emissions system are deleted, and the smell is mitigated. It pretty much smells like stock with the DPF in place.

Tambohamilton · 06-13-2020, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yozh

You guys are looking at an old thread. This is old news.

Yes, but what is the news? DPF can be left in while the EGR is disabled via software, but does it need to run for regens and startup only, or...?

Thecastle · 06-14-2020, 01:50 PM

With the right tune the EGR can be completely removed. It is not at all needed for doing a DPF regen.

I ran a JR stage 2 tune with EGR deleted for 45K miles 3 years, with the EGR totally removed (using EGR racepipe) and EGR cooler totally removed / deleted as some like to say. With my DOC/DPF/SCR fully intact and operating. Car did DPF regens as needed in this configuration with a tune. This config has been available for years, since at least 2015. Though there were some victims early on that had serious problems with this configuration, but its been totally hammered out, at least from the long term tuners, will not speak of the newer clone tunes.

MrSummer · 09-16-2020, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazza335iC

This is what I have as well, and IMO it's the best solution. You still get fast warm-ups and ideal DPF regens, but with a 95% reduction in EGR functionality. It's like having your cake and eating it too

Hello guys, I really want to have this EGR behaviour on my car. My MAPER told me if I can get a sample file, he can do the modification on my MAP. Can you please guide me where to get a MAP online for this, or can you guys download your own map?

sharaleo · 09-19-2020, 03:12 AM

I had my N57 2010 330d stage 1 tuned only a couple of months ago down here in Oz. EGR was coded completely off and DPF remains in place.

No problems to date. I don't notice warm up taking any longer, never see EGR activated (EGR is never commanded according to Torque Pro) and DPF is still regen'ing every tank or so.

This was done by a local shop who technically outsources the re-maps to another national company that specialises in such things, they deploy it locally and tweak. So yep, this seems like a solved problem, in terms of who can do it. Just ask the question and if the tuner claims it can't be done, find another tuner.

omerakz · 02-26-2022, 05:03 PM

Since there is a topic, I did not want to open a new one.

I drive a 220D (N47, 2.0 Diesel) and I want to get it tuned.

But i really don't want to remove DPF for couple of reasons like smell.

So should i get EGR removed by coding and will everything work ok or we have to code it in a way that it works at starts and regens?

My car is just 70K KMs and i dont want to damage the DPF, turbo or the engine.

I would like to hear the updates.

Thanks!

12-08-2016, 07:50 AM	#1
AzRiz Captain 130 Rep 935 Posts Drives: E92 M3 LE500 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London iTrader: (1)	Can you delete EGR while retaining DPF? Hi guys, getting some mixed info from my research, I wanted to get a remap done and have the EGR disabled in the software in my 330d LCI N57. However, one good mapper brought it to my attention that deleting the EGR isn't a good idea if retaining the DPF, and having done some research (but not finding very much info) I found it written that this is in fact true: http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.u...emoval-delete/ Please Note: The EGR Valve should NOT be removed on vehicles that still have the DPF Filter in place, doing so may block the DPF as the EGR Valve operation is a prerequisite for DPF Regeneration. However, another reputable tuner did not mention that this would be an issue and when I asked him about it, he said that he hasn't had any issues on the ones that he has already done. He does a LOT of maps in the UK and worldwide so I'm surprised that he hasn't warned against such an issue. Does anybody know if DPF regen relies on a fully functioning EGR valve on our cars? Thanks in advance. __________________ Progress Thread \| Instagram: @azriz
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12-08-2016, 08:13 AM	#2
Hoooper Colonel 213 Rep 2,210 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Petaluma, CA iTrader: (0)	Lots of cars out there that ran with a blocked egr and still had dpf without issues. I did for about 60k miles and my dpf was not plugged. However, that seems to be different than tuning it out for some reason.
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12-08-2016, 08:16 AM	#3
JTC1 Private First Class 36 Rep 122 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Atl iTrader: (0)	I am still running with a DPF, and have a tune that allows the EGR to be open during start up and for Regens only. I think there was someone on the forum who had a DPF problem with the EGR coded out, but I am not sure about that as it was before my time on the forum.
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12-08-2016, 08:51 AM	#4
gavronm First Lieutenant 88 Rep 358 Posts Drives: 2011 335D M-Sport Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Just spitballing here, but it might have to do with how the tune is done. I ran for over a year with the EGR blocked and the DPF in place. I did not have a tune. I used a CAN tool that I left plugged into the OBD port to automatically clear codes every time I started the car. This worked fine and regens occurred without issue. The statement about EGR valve operation being a prerequisite for regens may be true. On my car the EGR valve was fully functional, so presumably the EGR valve would open, trip the sensor (or whatever) and the regen would begin. My block plates simply prevented any exhaust gas from recirculating into the intake. If a tuner merely coded the EGR to remain closed all the time without any other modifications it's possible that regens would not occur if the car in fact needs to "see" that the EGR valve is open. On the other hand, if a tuner is able to program the car so that EGR opening is NOT a prerequisite for regen, or is able to mimic an "EGR valve is open" signal, then regens should still occur as needed. At the end of the day I would just look for a tuner with experience tuning these cars and lots of happy customers.
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12-08-2016, 01:28 PM	#8
davegris Master and Commander 17 Rep 55 Posts Drives: 2010 335D Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA iTrader: (0)	Throttle body too I read somewhere along the line that the throttle body (also called the anti-shudder valve) needs to be working correctly in order for DPF regen to occur. My car would not regen the DPF even when requested thru Carly. I was getting throttle body related codes. I took the throttle body off and the butterfly in it felt broken... like the shaft was broken from the electric motor. I read somewhere here that the throttle body partially closes during DPF regen in order to help keep temperatures up for regen process. I hope to know if it will regen soon with new throttle body in play. I have a new throttle body (and EGR racepipe and assorted other goodies like w/m kit and swirl flap plates) but I took the opportunity to do a CBU clean as my car has ~120k miles. Performance and mileage were both sucking.
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12-10-2016, 09:25 AM	#9
Thecastle Major 307 Rep 1,146 Posts Drives: F10 550i Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW M340i [0.00] 2019 RAM 3500 [0.00] 2020 BMW X3 [0.00] 2016 BMW 550i [0.00] 2000 Ford F450 7.3l ... [0.00]	I've been running egr disabled with a dpf for sometime and no issues thus far, except improved fuel economy
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12-12-2016, 04:21 AM	#11
AzRiz Captain 130 Rep 935 Posts Drives: E92 M3 LE500 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London iTrader: (1)	So I've spoken to 2 tuners that I would be happy to use (both are known to write very good maps and have been doing it for many years now). One says that it won't be a problem as he has disabled the EGR on "many many many" cars and had zero DPF issues over the years. The other one says that he strongly recommends not doing it if keeping the DPF, but he will now do some more detailed research into this topic and see if he can do what you guys are saying above with having the EGR work during cold start and DPF regen only. Might speak to another couple of tuners for further info/opinions/experience. If anyone has any more info or experience on this topic, please do join in. __________________ Progress Thread \| Instagram: @azriz
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06-12-2020, 06:23 PM	#13
dave330 Private 7 Rep 76 Posts Drives: BMW E92 330D Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	speak to bwchiptune ,they have an excellent reputation for remapping bmw diesels ,infact they recommend leaving the dpf and they can code out the egr and have no problems ,that way the car is still legal and will pass an mot no problem ,once i have sorted a few other issues that's where i'm taking mine.
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06-12-2020, 11:19 PM	#14
Yozh Colonel 870 Rep 2,615 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Wet Coast iTrader: (4)	You guys are looking at an old thread. This is old news.
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06-14-2020, 01:50 PM	#17
Thecastle Major 307 Rep 1,146 Posts Drives: F10 550i Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW M340i [0.00] 2019 RAM 3500 [0.00] 2020 BMW X3 [0.00] 2016 BMW 550i [0.00] 2000 Ford F450 7.3l ... [0.00]	With the right tune the EGR can be completely removed. It is not at all needed for doing a DPF regen. I ran a JR stage 2 tune with EGR deleted for 45K miles 3 years, with the EGR totally removed (using EGR racepipe) and EGR cooler totally removed / deleted as some like to say. With my DOC/DPF/SCR fully intact and operating. Car did DPF regens as needed in this configuration with a tune. This config has been available for years, since at least 2015. Though there were some victims early on that had serious problems with this configuration, but its been totally hammered out, at least from the long term tuners, will not speak of the newer clone tunes.
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09-19-2020, 03:12 AM	#19
sharaleo New Member 2 Rep 17 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 330d Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Perth iTrader: (0)	I had my N57 2010 330d stage 1 tuned only a couple of months ago down here in Oz. EGR was coded completely off and DPF remains in place. No problems to date. I don't notice warm up taking any longer, never see EGR activated (EGR is never commanded according to Torque Pro) and DPF is still regen'ing every tank or so. This was done by a local shop who technically outsources the re-maps to another national company that specialises in such things, they deploy it locally and tweak. So yep, this seems like a solved problem, in terms of who can do it. Just ask the question and if the tuner claims it can't be done, find another tuner.
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02-26-2022, 05:03 PM	#20
omerakz Private 11 Rep 59 Posts Drives: BMW 220D F22, Mazda MX5 ND Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Turkey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 220d [0.00]	Since there is a topic, I did not want to open a new one. I drive a 220D (N47, 2.0 Diesel) and I want to get it tuned. But i really don't want to remove DPF for couple of reasons like smell. So should i get EGR removed by coding and will everything work ok or we have to code it in a way that it works at starts and regens? My car is just 70K KMs and i dont want to damage the DPF, turbo or the engine. I would like to hear the updates. Thanks!
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