[FSE23]

Reading some news with Q&A I wonder who makes that law which is uterly nonsense. Just to clarify- I'm furious every time when I see idiots holding mobile phone in hand, bending head to keep mobile between shoulder and ear , texting while driving etc. and much worse seeing such idiots driving 5xx or E class where BT is certainly available but they are too lazy to connect.
But this law which says you are not allowed to touch a mobile phone even if it is in cradle is complete nonsense. The other part which says you can use mobile phone sat nav only when phone is in a cradle turned 45deg towards driver - what a nonsense!!! So how about built in sat nav at the 90 deg angles? How about touch screens in many cars? Are these illegal now? Can you touch it? Can you play music at all? Just imagine polce officer stopping you saying - hello driver, you sat nav is turned 30 deg , it is illegal and you have now 6 points. Or another example - you touch the cradle and vent and you are stopped by officer saying you touched the phone- reply: no, I touched the vent . ...where is this law going to lead us? I think the current law was good enough but noone cared, and that was the problem.
What are you thinking?

[robbiep]

The law is relatively simple on the subject - basically, full integration is required for your use of a (normally) hand-held phone to be legal. For use of the same unit for navigation purposes, it must be positioned in such a way as to comply with the law.
Regarding built-in systems or controls for ventilation, the law specifically allows for their use - it has to. However, if you are distracted whilst using one of those systems or controls, you can still be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, reckless / dangerous driving, etc.

In practice, it's going to make no difference to the 90+% of us that pay attention and do our best to comply with the law.
Those that are going to get clobbered are those driving whilst using their phones hand-held.
If you think the police have got the time to have a go at anyone who is changing their radio channel, then I'd suggest a large dose of reality is required.

[creepy coupe]

I woner how sat navs fair?. Tomtom and alike

[creepy coupe]

I'm assuming stand alone sat navs are also at risk?

[FSE23]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The law is relatively simple on the subject - basically, full integration is required for your use of a (normally) hand-held phone to be legal. For use of the same unit for navigation purposes, it must be positioned in such a way as to comply with the law.
Regarding built-in systems or controls for ventilation, the law specifically allows for their use - it has to. However, if you are distracted whilst using one of those systems or controls, you can still be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, reckless / dangerous driving, etc.

In practice, it's going to make no difference to the 90+% of us that pay attention and do our best to comply with the law.
Those that are going to get clobbered are those driving whilst using their phones hand-held.
If you think the police have got the time to have a go at anyone who is changing their radio channel, then I'd suggest a large dose of reality is required.

I agree to what you say, reality is needed but I can imagine some unreal officers could possibly fine people for using those. But to be honest what is the difference between phone in the cradle placed close to you and full BT intergration with touch screen in a car f.ex. Corsa I have. To operate anything on that screen in Corsa is dramatic, I suppose much worse than if i had a phone mounted close to me. But we'll see soon probably some reports in Daily Mail of unfair penalties. These are very tempting for revenue now.

[Danny Fireblade]

I think people are being a little hysterical and have some seriously distorted view of what police officers are actually like.

No police officer will issue any ticket or summons for using a sat nav or integrated touch screen, unless doing so impairs your ability to drive your car in a safe and considerate manner.

If you fail to drive like that because of your operation of that device, then you will be reported as such.

There is however no excuse for holding or using a handheld mobile device while driving, and if you do and get caught, it's your own fault.

Officers discretion for offering education courses for first time offences have also been removed for a short period, so be extra careful.

If you feel you have to use it, then do so, but I would be surprised if any officers will let anyone off with a warning, even if it means they lose their licences, homes and jobs as a result.

The extra points and fine has been introduced to try and stop the needless deaths of innocent people, which happens far too often.

[philiper1]

What I read was anything that can take your full concentration should be avoided, it is common sense not to mess with anything whilst driving! If you use sat nav, do you program it as you are moving? No, you do it before you set off, so it is to make sure everybody is safe!!! Still not going to stop the morons texting or surfing the net IMO.

[Jeff123]

[/QUOTE] practice, it's going to make no difference to the 90+% of us that pay attention and do our best to comply with the law.
Those that are going to get clobbered are those driving whilst using their phones hand-held.
If you think the police have got the time to have a go at anyone who is changing their radio channel, then I'd suggest a large dose of reality is required.[/QUOTE]

if you are crossing the road near traffic lights and just look at the number of people who are fiddling with their phone in one way or another, i reckon that the majority of people are on their phones. Quite interesting in the dark as everyones face starts to light upon from the phone once the car stops.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

I'm assuming stand alone sat navs are also at risk?

There is an offence of not being in full control of your vehicle. So if you were swerving over the road as you programmed it you'd be committing an offence.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

There is an offence of not being in full control of your vehicle. So if you were swerving over the road as you programmed it you'd be committing an offence.

I guess this is why you sometimes hear of people eating a banana or drinking a coffee getting pulled over, but that has more to do with the manner of driving whilst drinking the coffee than the actual act?

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I guess this is why you sometimes hear of people eating a banana or drinking a coffee getting pulled over, but that has more to do with the manner of driving whilst drinking the coffee than the actual act?

Exactly. Personally I'd never issue a ticket if someone was eating or drinking in their car and they were still driving to an acceptable standard. One, I think it would be hypocritical as some shifts the only time I get to eat or drink is in the car going between job, and two, in this country we still police with the consent of the public and its things like that which really piss people off and then the Daily Mail goes on an anti-police rant.

I believe that in probably 80% of the motoring offences I see, education is better and more effective than a punishment.

Of course, if I see you on your phone or you have a number plate in italics or deliberately altered you'll get a ticket every time!

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

There is an offence of not being in full control of your vehicle. So if you were swerving over the road as you programmed it you'd be committing an offence.

Who said anything about swerving?. I was just curious as to the perceived differnce between tapping a sat nav screen and tapping a phone screen. Which might also have sat nav functions.

[Danny Fireblade]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Who said anything about swerving?. I was just curious as to the perceived differnce between tapping a sat nav screen and tapping a phone screen. Which might also have sat nav functions.

Well one is a phone, which is against the law, and one is a sat nav, which isn't.

[Billyray911]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Who said anything about swerving?. I was just curious as to the perceived differnce between tapping a sat nav screen and tapping a phone screen. Which might also have sat nav functions.

Just to nail this down a bit,in relation to the specific discussed legislation covering the use of mobile phones or a hand held device,the definition of these devices is the important issue.
They are defined as such... a hand-held mobile telephone, or a hand-held device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
Therefore,as we're discussing them,a standalone sat nav-in the traditional sense of the word,would not be covered by the above legislation,as it does not transmit and receive data.A mobile phone used as a sat nav is capable of sending and receiving data as that is its core function and would be covered if held in hand.
A phone or other device mounted in a cradle is permitted providing it can be operated without holding it (the driver can still operate the buttons without holding the device).
Now,as touring pleb mentioned,if the driver is distracted when operating the device,other offences come into play i.e. not in proper control or careless/dangerous driving-depending on the specifics of each scenario.
As Danny has also mentioned,I'm sure that we can all get tied up in the semantics and what if scenarios,but it's straight forward legislation.

[FSE23]

I supposed it is quite straightforward legislation but what is the point to put into legislation something like - you item should be at 45deg towards you etc or you can't touch it. I'm not sure if that is exactly written down but I read the news with Q&A as I said, which sounded really weird.

[Billyray911]

Originally Posted by FSE23

I supposed it is quite straightforward legislation but what is the point to put into legislation something like - you item should be at 45deg towards you etc or you can't touch it. I'm not sure if that is exactly written down but I read the news with Q&A as I said, which sounded really weird.

Post up a link if you can find it mate

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Billyray911

Just to nail this down a bit,in relation to the specific discussed legislation covering the use of mobile phones or a hand held device,the definition of these devices is the important issue.
They are defined as such... a hand-held mobile telephone, or a hand-held device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
Therefore,as we're discussing them,a standalone sat nav-in the traditional sense of the word,would not be covered by the above legislation,as it does not transmit and receive data.A mobile phone used as a sat nav is capable of sending and receiving data as that is its core function and would be covered if held in hand.
A phone or other device mounted in a cradle is permitted providing it can be operated without holding it (the driver can still operate the buttons without holding the device).
Now,as touring pleb mentioned,if the driver is distracted when operating the device,other offences come into play i.e. not in proper control or careless/dangerous driving-depending on the specifics of each scenario.
As Danny has also mentioned,I'm sure that we can all get tied up in the semantics and what if scenarios,but it's straight forward legislation.

That's the kind of info i was looking for. Thanks