Need help with rear wheel bearing issue

47Straight · 03-13-2017, 10:51 PM

I'm having some issues with my rear wheel bearings and I was hoping someone here might have some insight. I have a 2007 335i with about 72,000 miles.

About a year ago (10,000 miles ago) I was having some vibration in the rear axle. I determined it was the left rear wheel bearing. I decided to go ahead and replace both rear bearings. That fixed the vibration and all was well.

About 6 months ago the vibration started again. Again, it seems to be from the left rear wheel. Very subtle at first, but it keeps getting worse. I'm almost certain it's the wheel bearing again.

So, my question is, what would cause the wheel bearing to go out again so quickly? I know wheel bearings are a common maintenance issue on the 3 series, but it shouldn't be every 10,000 miles.

Other than poor workmanship, can anyone point to a likely culprit that would cause the bearing to go bad again so quickly? Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

jt335i · 03-14-2017, 08:50 AM

There is definitely something peculiar going on because wheel bearings are not wearable items like brakes and tires. Most wheel bearings last the lifetime of a car without ever being replaced, unless it's damaged from an accident, or the seal has failed due to poor installation or a manufacturers defect. From what I hear, the most common cause of failure is poor installation. If you brought your car to the same shop that did the replacement, I would go to a different place and have them do it. And if that newest replacement doesn’t fail, then you’ll know that the shop that did the original replacement didn’t do a good job. Good luck to you.

Navy Doc · 03-14-2017, 09:06 AM

Did you use the oem bearing? I went through the same issues and initially installed a aftermarket bearing and within months it went bad. Actually went through two sets because the first bearing's magnetic strip was either missing or not strong enough. So I was getting all the associated errors with the antilock system. Eventually I got the oem from the stealership and had a shop install. Been over two years without any issues. I would place the fault on the aftermarket part and my install workmanship. Other than those reasons I can't come up with any other reasons that would cause such a short lived bearing. The silver lining.......... I learned a lot about my suspension during the two times I went in there and installed those bearings. Good luck on he next bearing.

47Straight · 03-16-2017, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navy Doc

Did you use the oem bearing? I went through the same issues and initially installed a aftermarket bearing and within months it went bad. Actually went through two sets because the first bearing's magnetic strip was either missing or not strong enough. So I was getting all the associated errors with the antilock system. Eventually I got the oem from the stealership and had a shop install. Been over two years without any issues. I would place the fault on the aftermarket part and my install workmanship. Other than those reasons I can't come up with any other reasons that would cause such a short lived bearing. The silver lining.......... I learned a lot about my suspension during the two times I went in there and installed those bearings. Good luck on he next bearing.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I did use OEM bearings. I'm starting to be concerned it might be something else. I hate to take it to a shop, but with the little time I have to work on it I may have to. Hopefully they can get it fixed completely this time. I'll post the solution I know.

47Straight · 03-18-2017, 07:48 PM

Ok, so now I'm not sure what the problem is. In addition to the rear end vibration, I've been having some vibration under breaking from high speeds. I thought it was old rotors so I did the brakes today. Replaced rotors, pads, sensor, etc. for the front brakes. It didn't affect the problem at all. Now, it made me realize that I don't really feel the vibration under braking through the steering wheel or in the front end at all.

So, I'm wondering if the two things could be related. The vibration in the rear doesn't really start until 55 MPH or so, and the vibration in braking only happens from speeds over 50 MPH or so. If the braking vibration is actually in the rear, which it feels like it might be, could the two vibrations be related? If it is, do the two issues point to any specific problem?

djh2 · 03-18-2017, 07:54 PM

Vibration while braking can be control arm bushings. Check the front inner bushings on the control arms (diagonal toward front of car from hub) for telltale black leaking fluid.

CW · 03-18-2017, 10:05 PM

It could be as simple as one of your wheels are out of balance.

tmsnyder · 03-19-2017, 09:15 PM

Could be so many things. U-joint / CV joint, damaged or defective tire, loose lugs, flat spot on tire?

Or it could be a wheel bearing, they do wear out pretty quickly on these, and they may have been installed wrong, very easy to do if they are pressed in wrong.

vtl · 03-19-2017, 09:56 PM

If the wheel bearing was not installed in the correct manner then it is not surprising that it could be making noise already.

When installing the bearing into the hub, it has to be pressed in via the outer race, if pressed in via the inner race (basically putting force on the ball bearings), severe bearing damage will occur and fail very quickly.

When installing the output flange into the inner race, you cannot just hammer it on, or severe bearing damage will occur, you must press in the output flange while supporting the inner race, so you don't stress the ball bearing.

tmsnyder · 03-20-2017, 07:53 AM

Exactly, just did this on mine and not only when pressing in the bearing must only press on outer race, but when pressing in the hub into the center you must only support or press on the inner race which is a pair of races. If you support the outer one while pressing on the inner one it'll ruin it. It's easy to mess it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtl

If the wheel bearing was not installed in the correct manner then it is not surprising that it could be making noise already.

When installing the bearing into the hub, it has to be pressed in via the outer race, if pressed in via the inner race (basically putting force on the ball bearings), severe bearing damage will occur and fail very quickly.

When installing the output flange into the inner race, you cannot just hammer it on, or severe bearing damage will occur, you must press in the output flange while supporting the inner race, so you don't stress the ball bearing.

doru · 03-20-2017, 11:11 AM

One issue that might induce that vibration are bent wheels. Visually it's hard if not impossible to notice. You have to go to a shop, have the wheels taken off, tires taken off and have them spun.
The last 2 years I had 7 bent wheels on 3 cars, all these cars where purchased 2nd hand, and wheels looked really good. Vibrations also killed me without noticing anything out of the ordinary after inspecting suspension & braking components. Bit the bullet and went to a guy that is fixing wheels. After he took the tires off and spun the wheels, I was in shock noticing how egged those wheels were...

07lilredwagon · 03-21-2017, 05:56 PM

remote possibility is the driveshaft. check the center bearing and all universal joints...

Ive had bent rims give symptoms of bad rotors......old run flat tires suck and are loud and vibrate......

JP

47Straight · 04-08-2017, 08:56 PM

Ok, so here's the latest update. I took the car in to have the wheels balanced and decided I need new tires anyway. Had new Michelin tires put on all the way around:

Vibration at speed (60 to 85mph) seems to be a little less, but still there.
Vibration on braking from high speed is definitely still there. No improvement.

I replaced the front rotors and pads. No improvement on either vibration.

So, I figured the braking culprit might be the upper control arms. I took the belly pan off to investigate and both arms show the telltale black stripe on the arm near the bushings as though they have ruptured. I'm thinking that's the likely culprit for the braking, possibly for both vibrations.

Now, the additional problem is that I found a decent amount of oil on the belly pan and a good amount of wet oil on the bottom of the oil pan. Interestingly enough, the gasket area around the oil pan is clean. Also, the transmission pan and gasket area are clean. As I traced the leak, it lead up the front of the engine and stops right at the lower front edge of the valve cover gasket.

The strange thing is, though, that the oil on the bottom of the oil pan was pretty wet. All the oil I could find around the gasket, primarily right below it, was pretty much caked with dirt and more pasty, if that makes sense. I'm concerned there might be oil coming from somewhere else, but I'm not sure what to check. The oil filter housing gasket has just a little, dirt caked oil residue around it.

Regardless, I think the leak must be very small because it never registers when I check the oil level and I've never seen any on the floor or my parking space at work. I cleaned everything off as best I can and I'm going to drive it a little more to see if I can see the specific leak location. I left the belly pan off for now to see if I get oil in my parking spaces.

So, after all that, here's my thinking on a plan of action:

1. Replace control arms. Decide between stock upper control arms, Meyle HD uppers, M3 uppers or complete M3 upper & lower replacement.

2. Once replaced have a full alignment done. I would do that first to see if it helps the vibration at speed, but If I'm going to replace the thrust arms anyway I might as well wait on the alignment and only do it once.

3. If that doesn't fix the braking vibration then I'm not sure where to look next.

4. Unless anyone has any other thoughts, It looks like I'm replacing the valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket. I'll go ahead and do plugs while I'm in there as it's about time anyway.

So, before proceeding I have a couple of questions:

Any other thoughts on where the oil leak might be coming from?
Is there any way to test the upper control arm bushings to confirm the need to replace them? If I jack the car up will they feel loose or have movement?
Does anyone have any feedback on stock vs. Meyle HD vs. M3 control arms?
Will the M3 full replacement cause more tire wear (it increases camber a little)?

Thanks for everyone's input to this point. Any additional thoughts would definitely be appreciated.

1275 · 04-08-2017, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47Straight

Vibration at speed (60 to 85mph) seems to be a little less, but still there.
Vibration on braking from high speed is definitely still there. No improvement.

I had these exact symptoms, which turned out to be caused by a bent front wheel. The vibrations were mainly felt through the steering wheel and were most obvious when coasting at a higher speed.

I took my car in for an alignment, told them the problem and ran the wheel on their machine which showed it was no longer perfectly round.

Hope this helps.

Edit: if you had new tyres fitted, hopefully they checked the wheels were not bent. Maybe you can confirm with the tyre shop or get a 2nd opinion?

47Straight · 04-08-2017, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1275

I had these exact symptoms, which turned out to be caused by a bent front wheel. The vibrations were mainly felt through the steering wheel and were most obvious when coasting at a higher speed.

I took my car in for an alignment, told them the problem and ran the wheel on their machine which showed it was no longer perfectly round.

Hope this helps.

Edit: if you had new tyres fitted, hopefully they checked the wheels were not bent. Maybe you can confirm with the tyre shop or get a 2nd opinion?

The funny thing about these vibrations, both the one at speed and one on braking, is that I don't really feel them through the steering wheel. At least, not any more than I feel them otherwise.

The vibration at speed I feel mostly through the seat or if I put my hand on the center console or passenger seat. The vibration on braking is a much slower, lower pitched vibration and seems to be a general shaking/vibration of the car.

47Straight · 04-09-2017, 11:20 AM

I checked again this morning and the vibration on braking really doesn't seem to affect the steering wheel at all. In fact, neither of the vibrations do. I'm starting to wonder if it's a rear brake issue. I replaced the front rotors and pads because they needed it anyway, hoping that would solve the braking issue, but no help. The rear rotors were replaced before I bought the car but shouldn't have more than 20,000 miles on them.

Thoughts?

1275 · 04-09-2017, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47Straight

I checked again this morning and the vibration on braking really doesn't seem to affect the steering wheel at all. In fact, neither of the vibrations do. I'm starting to wonder if it's a rear brake issue. I replaced the front rotors and pads because they needed it anyway, hoping that would solve the braking issue, but no help. The rear rotors were replaced before I bought the car but shouldn't have more than 20,000 miles on them.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure if the theory is perfect, but I have always been under the impression that vibrations through the steering wheel were caused by the front axle and vibrations through the seat, floor etc were caused by the rear axle.

This might be rubbish, but if you've eliminated the front then it can't hurt to investigate the rear axle.

Have you checked the bushings in the rear of the car?

47Straight · 04-13-2017, 09:56 PM

Ok, I wasn't sure about the problem and I didn't want to just throw parts at it so I decided to try a relatively new indy BMW shop here in Wichita called Bmer Tech. They looked at the car and confirmed the front upper control (thrust) arms. They also said the rear rotors were warped.

So, I had them replace the thrust arms with the Meyle HD arms and turn the rear rotors.

$85 to turn the rotors and $400 to replace the thrust arms and the car drives smooth as glass again. Now, I could have replaced the thrust arms myself for about $200 in parts, but I think $400 for someone else to do it is pretty fair. Much cheaper than the local dealer and they were great to work with. They got the car in on an appointment, had it looked at that morning, ordered parts and had it done the next day by noon. They also sell parts at a really good price.

I'm ecstatic to find a shop like this locally. It means I can actually choose between doing it myself or paying someone a fair price to do it for me.

03-13-2017, 10:51 PM	#1
47Straight Private 44 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 335i Sportline Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Wichita, Kansas iTrader: (0)	Need help with rear wheel bearing issue I'm having some issues with my rear wheel bearings and I was hoping someone here might have some insight. I have a 2007 335i with about 72,000 miles. About a year ago (10,000 miles ago) I was having some vibration in the rear axle. I determined it was the left rear wheel bearing. I decided to go ahead and replace both rear bearings. That fixed the vibration and all was well. About 6 months ago the vibration started again. Again, it seems to be from the left rear wheel. Very subtle at first, but it keeps getting worse. I'm almost certain it's the wheel bearing again. So, my question is, what would cause the wheel bearing to go out again so quickly? I know wheel bearings are a common maintenance issue on the 3 series, but it shouldn't be every 10,000 miles. Other than poor workmanship, can anyone point to a likely culprit that would cause the bearing to go bad again so quickly? Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.
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03-14-2017, 08:50 AM	#2
jt335i Major 263 Rep 1,225 Posts Drives: 2010 E92 335i Monaco blue Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tampa, Fl iTrader: (0)	There is definitely something peculiar going on because wheel bearings are not wearable items like brakes and tires. Most wheel bearings last the lifetime of a car without ever being replaced, unless it's damaged from an accident, or the seal has failed due to poor installation or a manufacturers defect. From what I hear, the most common cause of failure is poor installation. If you brought your car to the same shop that did the replacement, I would go to a different place and have them do it. And if that newest replacement doesn’t fail, then you’ll know that the shop that did the original replacement didn’t do a good job. Good luck to you. __________________ 2010 BMW 335i: Monaco blue metallic/Premium+Sport Auto-Steptronic, BMW PE, Cobb Stage 2 2005 Mustang GT: Redfire metallic/5-spd/Ford Racing (Axle backs, silver Bullitt wheels)/K&N CAI/ Diablo Sport Predator Tuner 1997 Toyota Corolla 1983 Mercedes Benz 380SL Roadster Last edited by jt335i; 03-14-2017 at 08:56 AM..
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03-14-2017, 09:06 AM	#3
Navy Doc Private First Class 187 Rep 188 Posts Drives: 335i e93 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Temecula, CA iTrader: (0)	Did you use the oem bearing? I went through the same issues and initially installed a aftermarket bearing and within months it went bad. Actually went through two sets because the first bearing's magnetic strip was either missing or not strong enough. So I was getting all the associated errors with the antilock system. Eventually I got the oem from the stealership and had a shop install. Been over two years without any issues. I would place the fault on the aftermarket part and my install workmanship. Other than those reasons I can't come up with any other reasons that would cause such a short lived bearing. The silver lining.......... I learned a lot about my suspension during the two times I went in there and installed those bearings. Good luck on he next bearing.
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03-18-2017, 07:48 PM	#5
47Straight Private 44 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 335i Sportline Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Wichita, Kansas iTrader: (0)	Ok, so now I'm not sure what the problem is. In addition to the rear end vibration, I've been having some vibration under breaking from high speeds. I thought it was old rotors so I did the brakes today. Replaced rotors, pads, sensor, etc. for the front brakes. It didn't affect the problem at all. Now, it made me realize that I don't really feel the vibration under braking through the steering wheel or in the front end at all. So, I'm wondering if the two things could be related. The vibration in the rear doesn't really start until 55 MPH or so, and the vibration in braking only happens from speeds over 50 MPH or so. If the braking vibration is actually in the rear, which it feels like it might be, could the two vibrations be related? If it is, do the two issues point to any specific problem?
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03-18-2017, 07:54 PM	#6
djh2 Second Lieutenant 68 Rep 298 Posts Drives: '16 330e Join Date: May 2015 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW 328i [0.00]	Vibration while braking can be control arm bushings. Check the front inner bushings on the control arms (diagonal toward front of car from hub) for telltale black leaking fluid.
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03-18-2017, 10:05 PM	#7
CW Enlisted Member 14 Rep 49 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW 328xi [0.00] 1985 BMW 325E [0.00]	It could be as simple as one of your wheels are out of balance.
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03-19-2017, 09:15 PM	#8
tmsnyder New Member 8 Rep 28 Posts Drives: 2011 335i Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Buffalo, NY iTrader: (0)	Could be so many things. U-joint / CV joint, damaged or defective tire, loose lugs, flat spot on tire? Or it could be a wheel bearing, they do wear out pretty quickly on these, and they may have been installed wrong, very easy to do if they are pressed in wrong.
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03-19-2017, 09:56 PM	#9
vtl Brigadier General 1495 Rep 3,148 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 135i MT Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	If the wheel bearing was not installed in the correct manner then it is not surprising that it could be making noise already. When installing the bearing into the hub, it has to be pressed in via the outer race, if pressed in via the inner race (basically putting force on the ball bearings), severe bearing damage will occur and fail very quickly. When installing the output flange into the inner race, you cannot just hammer it on, or severe bearing damage will occur, you must press in the output flange while supporting the inner race, so you don't stress the ball bearing. __________________ Build Thread
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03-20-2017, 11:11 AM	#11
doru Lieutenant 126 Rep 482 Posts Drives: e92, f25, e46, e83 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	One issue that might induce that vibration are bent wheels. Visually it's hard if not impossible to notice. You have to go to a shop, have the wheels taken off, tires taken off and have them spun. The last 2 years I had 7 bent wheels on 3 cars, all these cars where purchased 2nd hand, and wheels looked really good. Vibrations also killed me without noticing anything out of the ordinary after inspecting suspension & braking components. Bit the bullet and went to a guy that is fixing wheels. After he took the tires off and spun the wheels, I was in shock noticing how egged those wheels were... __________________ Stable: e92is f25 N52 e83 N52 e46ci M54B25 (e53 N62 - sold, R.I.P. e39 M54B30)
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03-21-2017, 05:56 PM	#12
07lilredwagon Captain 40 Rep 679 Posts Drives: 07 328 wagon Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	remote possibility is the driveshaft. check the center bearing and all universal joints... Ive had bent rims give symptoms of bad rotors......old run flat tires suck and are loud and vibrate...... JP
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04-08-2017, 08:56 PM	#13
47Straight Private 44 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 335i Sportline Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Wichita, Kansas iTrader: (0)	Ok, so here's the latest update. I took the car in to have the wheels balanced and decided I need new tires anyway. Had new Michelin tires put on all the way around: Vibration at speed (60 to 85mph) seems to be a little less, but still there. Vibration on braking from high speed is definitely still there. No improvement. I replaced the front rotors and pads. No improvement on either vibration. So, I figured the braking culprit might be the upper control arms. I took the belly pan off to investigate and both arms show the telltale black stripe on the arm near the bushings as though they have ruptured. I'm thinking that's the likely culprit for the braking, possibly for both vibrations. Now, the additional problem is that I found a decent amount of oil on the belly pan and a good amount of wet oil on the bottom of the oil pan. Interestingly enough, the gasket area around the oil pan is clean. Also, the transmission pan and gasket area are clean. As I traced the leak, it lead up the front of the engine and stops right at the lower front edge of the valve cover gasket. The strange thing is, though, that the oil on the bottom of the oil pan was pretty wet. All the oil I could find around the gasket, primarily right below it, was pretty much caked with dirt and more pasty, if that makes sense. I'm concerned there might be oil coming from somewhere else, but I'm not sure what to check. The oil filter housing gasket has just a little, dirt caked oil residue around it. Regardless, I think the leak must be very small because it never registers when I check the oil level and I've never seen any on the floor or my parking space at work. I cleaned everything off as best I can and I'm going to drive it a little more to see if I can see the specific leak location. I left the belly pan off for now to see if I get oil in my parking spaces. So, after all that, here's my thinking on a plan of action: 1. Replace control arms. Decide between stock upper control arms, Meyle HD uppers, M3 uppers or complete M3 upper & lower replacement. 2. Once replaced have a full alignment done. I would do that first to see if it helps the vibration at speed, but If I'm going to replace the thrust arms anyway I might as well wait on the alignment and only do it once. 3. If that doesn't fix the braking vibration then I'm not sure where to look next. 4. Unless anyone has any other thoughts, It looks like I'm replacing the valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket. I'll go ahead and do plugs while I'm in there as it's about time anyway. So, before proceeding I have a couple of questions: Any other thoughts on where the oil leak might be coming from? Is there any way to test the upper control arm bushings to confirm the need to replace them? If I jack the car up will they feel loose or have movement? Does anyone have any feedback on stock vs. Meyle HD vs. M3 control arms? Will the M3 full replacement cause more tire wear (it increases camber a little)? Thanks for everyone's input to this point. Any additional thoughts would definitely be appreciated.
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04-09-2017, 11:20 AM	#16
47Straight Private 44 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 335i Sportline Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Wichita, Kansas iTrader: (0)	I checked again this morning and the vibration on braking really doesn't seem to affect the steering wheel at all. In fact, neither of the vibrations do. I'm starting to wonder if it's a rear brake issue. I replaced the front rotors and pads because they needed it anyway, hoping that would solve the braking issue, but no help. The rear rotors were replaced before I bought the car but shouldn't have more than 20,000 miles on them. Thoughts?
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04-13-2017, 09:56 PM	#18
47Straight Private 44 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 335i Sportline Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Wichita, Kansas iTrader: (0)	Ok, I wasn't sure about the problem and I didn't want to just throw parts at it so I decided to try a relatively new indy BMW shop here in Wichita called Bmer Tech. They looked at the car and confirmed the front upper control (thrust) arms. They also said the rear rotors were warped. So, I had them replace the thrust arms with the Meyle HD arms and turn the rear rotors. $85 to turn the rotors and $400 to replace the thrust arms and the car drives smooth as glass again. Now, I could have replaced the thrust arms myself for about $200 in parts, but I think $400 for someone else to do it is pretty fair. Much cheaper than the local dealer and they were great to work with. They got the car in on an appointment, had it looked at that morning, ordered parts and had it done the next day by noon. They also sell parts at a really good price. I'm ecstatic to find a shop like this locally. It means I can actually choose between doing it myself or paying someone a fair price to do it for me.
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