[Boxer]

As I've been deciding between DCT and 6-spd manual I've read about 50 pages of internet blogs arguing between the two. I've also test driven both transmissions in an M4.

DCT is far easier for me, duh, but the lack of control is annoying and the paddles are just awkward. Maybe this is a dumb suggestion (flame suit on) but why not make a DCT car with a traditional stick with 7 traditional gear slots that can be controlled in full manual mode? You lose a clutch pedal but regain control and have a non-stupid (I.e., non-paddle) way of controlling the car. Leave the paddles as an option for the 1% that actually track their car.

Am I the only one? The DCT controller is already a useless, non-shifting chunk of metal. Feel like an easy, useful replacement, and you can have a button for switching to auto mode when stuck in traffic if you want.

For the record, just bought a manual M4. 😁 Trade offs are worth it. But BMW, heed my wisdom for the ultimate manual-auto!

[gatorfast]

The DCT with a shifter similar to a manual transmission would be literally the worst of both worlds. You lose the immediacy of the DCT shift if you have to move a shift level similar to a manual and you lose the joy of a manual if you remove the clutch pedal.

[jmg]

The DCT can already by used as a "stick" albeit a bump shifter. I don't think that's what gets in the way of people feeling connected to the car however. It's the lack of a third pedal.

The bump shift does feel a little nicer to us traditional manual driver, I've been one for 20 years. But that might just be a muscle memory thing. The paddles are faster and more convenient. Maybe they just aren't as fun to us?

[Memphis17CPM4]

Originally Posted by jmg

The DCT can already by used as a "stick" albeit a bump shifter. I don't think that's what gets in the way of people feeling connected to the car however. It's the lack of a third pedal.

The bump shift does feel a little nicer to us traditional manual driver, I've been one for 20 years. But that might just be a muscle memory thing. The paddles are faster and more convenient. Maybe they just aren't as fun to us?

For me - I am a fan of DCT who happens to also love a manual transmission, who is very happy he chose a DCT. However, I do find myself having to think left/right down vs up when about to get on it where as with muscle memory it just happened. But that will come with time as I am just a first year guy. I love the DCT but I am not 100% comfortable yet beating on my car while go up and down aggressively with my gear box.

For what it is worth, I am thinking about getting an '11 as a daily driver and I have mentally said that I am going to look at sticks first. I imagine that is the comfort/muscle memory/enthusiast in me...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Memphis17CPM4

For me - I am a fan of DCT who happens to also love a manual transmission, who is very happy he chose a DCT. However, I do find myself having to think left/right down vs up when about to get on it where as with muscle memory it just happened. But that will come with time as I am just a first year guy. I love the DCT but I am not 100% comfortable yet beating on my car while go up and down aggressively with my gear box.

For what it is worth, I am thinking about getting an '11 as a daily driver and I have mentally said that I am going to look at sticks first. I imagine that is the comfort/muscle memory/enthusiast in me...

You get used to it. I have a dct as well and it's intuitive when you think about pushing forward to go faster.

[CanAutM3]

That's because you have not taken the time to learn how to use the DCT. The DCT lever is perfect how it is IMO. BMW actually did it right with pull to upshift and push to downshift, just like in a sequential race car. There is no less control to be had with the current lever as opposed to an H-pattern. Having to row gears with a DCT just does not make sense.

Moving from a tradirional MT to DCT takes a certain leap of faith because it takes some time to re-learn how to drive it. Getting a good appreciation of the DCT is not possible in a single test drive for either regular MT drivers nor for regular AT drivers. The M-DCT simply behaves differently to both. It took me several months to fully get accustomed to the DCT in my E92. The toughest part for me was remembering which gear I was in. Also, since it is so easy to shift with a DCT, one can easily "over-shift" when using DCT (meaning shifting too often). Learning how to control clutch accutation through throttle modulation is another skill that needs to be acquired.

While I still appreciate driving a traditional MT, just for the pleasure of nailing a perfect heel and toe downshift before entering a corner, I would not go back. DCT is that much better for me.

[Memphis17CPM4]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's because you have not taken the time to learn how to use the DCT. The DCT lever is perfect how it is IMO. BMW actually did it right with pull to upshift and push to downshift, just like in a sequential race car. There is no less control to be had with the current lever as opposed to an H-pattern. Having to row gears with a DCT just does not make sense.

Moving from a tradirional MT to DCT takes a certain leap of faith because it takes some time to re-learn how to drive it. Getting a good appreciation of the DCT is not possible in a single test drive for either regular MT drivers nor for regular AT drivers. The M-DCT simply behaves differently to both. It took me several months to fully get accustomed to the DCT in my E92. The toughest part for me was remembering which gear I was in. Also, since it is so easy to shift with a DCT, one can easily "over-shift" when using DCT (meaning shifting too often). Learning how to control clutch accutation through throttle modulation is another skill that needs to be acquired.

While I still appreciate driving a traditional MT, just for the pleasure of nailing a perfect heel and toe downshift before entering a corner, I would not go back. DCT is that much better for me.

When in manual I have only used the paddles. Never once have I used the shifter. For whatever reason I've been focused on the paddles. You're absolutely correct about push vs pull. I have only put 3K miles on my car since August, that includes to 600 mile road trips. I'm going to stop using the paddles and use the shifter, sometimes I have to laugh at myself. And, I have no problem with people laughing WITH me, hence my admission of dumbness, lol.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's because you have not taken the time to learn how to use the DCT. The DCT lever is perfect how it is IMO. BMW actually did it right with pull to upshift and push to downshift, just like in a sequential race car. There is no less control to be had with the current lever as opposed to an H-pattern. Having to row gears with a DCT just does not make sense.

^ all that

I drive manual only and in daily driving I almost exclusively use the stick; for sport driving I almost exclusively use the paddles - very occasionally I'll be taking a hairpin or something and my right hand is just closer to the stick and wheel is spinning so use the stick, but otherwise sport driving is all paddles.

I think it's a great set up - love the DCT. I do miss the MT and ideally I'd have two cars, one of each, but I'd rarely sport drive an MT if ever; just not the way to go.

[mkoesel]

You are not the first to suggest this - we had a discussion about this years ago when the DCT E9x M3 came out. Just tried to find it via search, but haven't had luck yet. Edit: found it here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...83#post2547583

To me it is a neat idea, but ultimately the demand is low. I should add that the 6MT in the Cadillac ATS-V gives you something very similar. It allows you do clutch-pedal-less, foot-to-the-floor upshifts. Did you test drive that car? You might want to check it out - it might be just what you want.

Also, about this:

You lose a clutch pedal but regain control and have a non-stupid (I.e., non-paddle) way of controlling the car.

The thing is, you had a reasonable question going, but with shots like that, you're just asking for a thread full of flaming, which means inevitable thread lock down. Just my personal advice here, but, if you genuinely want to have the discussion, its usually best to ask the question without the bias and see where it goes.