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      01-11-2018, 08:38 PM   #1
xcftw
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328d Emissions System Newbie Woes

Newbie here, so please go easy on me.

This question is going to be sort of multi-faceted. To preface, I'm on mobile and am not sure I am seeing all of the sub forums accurately, so if this post doesn't belong here please send me the link to where it does belong and I'll happily move! I've also done my best to go through all of the posts in this forum to avoid a repost.. but I know this is a common issue and question so I bet I'm just repeating what's already been asked a million times and I apologize in advance!

I purchased my 2014 328d in late July so I have not had it very long, but I have managed to put 17k miles on it in that time. The car has been INCREDIBLE!

Yesterday it threw the P20EE code and the P207F code in addition to "Incorrext Fluid" and a driving range of 200 miles before no start. Basically I have been feverishly researching for about 24 hours now - it's hard to sleep when the love of your life is sitting broken - and what I've come up with is that the first code means the car is detecting incorrect nitrogen levels stemming from *some* sort of failure in the emissions system whether that means I have a bad NOx sensor, clogged DEF metering valve, or maybe the car is simply out of DEF. (probably or that one..) Etc. And the second code essentially means "somethin' ain't right."

The car is out of warranty... and that's a lesson I learned. I've never owned a BMW but ALWAYS GO FOR THE WARRANTY OFFERED. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm new to all of this and ultimately I would LOVE to keep it out of the BMW dealership as I just honestly can't afford to take it. I've been reading about some enormous repair costs regarding the emissions system when taken to BMW. I understand that the parts themselves are expensive, but I'm desperately trying to find another solution whether that's DIY or finding an independent shop in my area who is willing to work on this thing. I live in a very rural area and should have made it a priority to find a shop ASAP when I bought the car to be prepared for potential issues... but again.. that whole hindsight thing.. I've also been reading that the emissions system is really a shot in the dark even for the dealership, which is a huge reason why it's a money pit. I can figure out how to afford to fix it... I'm just afraid I won't be able to afford to randomly throw parts at it.

We also had 1.5 weeks of extremely cold temps - 18F daytime/3F nighttime sustained for a week and a half!!! - and then suddenly the temp raised to 59F and it was that day (first day of heat after so much cold) that the car threw the codes. Not sure if that's related, but smells fishy to me...

So here I am. Car is sitting which is a huge pain as it's my work vehicle and I'm not sure what route to take. (I travel 3,500/month for business)

With all of the research I've done it seems most simple to clean DEF metering valve and add more DEF fluid first and see what happens.

But if that doesn't work..

I live in Tennessee and we have no emissions guidelines. Smog the planet, apparently this state doesn't care. That being said, in my research I've been reading about deletes for the DEF system... but I know nothing about this. I've been trying to read like crazy but I'm getting to the point of information overload, if you know what I'm saying.

Basically I would just love advice. I will take it to BMW if I have to, but first I want to search for an independent shop. While I'm searching, if there's any other ideas that I can investigate/try I would love to hear those. And then secondly, as far as longevity and reliability for a girl on a budget.. what's your opinions on the delete? And not only your opinion but any literature I can read to learn more? Broad Googling has been an overload of ALLLLL sorts of info but I am not sure I feel any wiser or more confident in what route I want to take.

My rural area is not overly BMW friendly, and most locals didn't even realize a car could come diesel, so I will really have to search to find a shop and find one I trust. In the meantime, any advice is appreciated.

In addition, you all may be smarter than me and already know this... but if there's two lessons to be learned from my misfortune it is 1) always go for the warranty and 2) find a mechanic ASAP if you live in the middle of nowhere.

I'm regretting not being more "on the ball" for sure as there's nothing more depressing than seeing your awesome little black, sporty 328d sitting in the yard like a brick due to emissions problems and having to daily drive your old F250 extended cab, long bed, terrible turn radius monster.

And again, if this isn't where this post belongs please direct me to the right forum. I'm on mobile and I just have this suspicion that I'm not seeing everything there is to see on this website...

Thank you guys so much, and give your driveable cars a hug!
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      01-11-2018, 09:22 PM   #2
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First thing, go to this thread and download and read up on the 328d SCR system (2nd PDF).
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=40

With all of the research I've done it seems most simple to clean DEF metering valve and add more DEF fluid first and see what happens.
That is the best DIY shot.

Don't know where you are wrt Memphis, but Memphis Autoworks (https://www.bimrs.org/profiles/MemphisMW.html) is listed on www.bimrs.org, and several other BMW shops are listed on www.bimmershops.com - https://www.bimmershops.com/search?q=tn

You seem to have relatively low miles, so it's not likely to be one of the more expensive problems (NOx, DEF tanks, SCR Catalyst). These problems are usually solvable for less than $1K, often less (the metering valve is around $500 or so to replace.)

It might also be the active tank's heater, which is repairable in the 328d (not in older models.)
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      01-12-2018, 09:24 AM   #3
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With all of the research I've done it seems most simple to clean DEF metering valve and add more DEF fluid first and see what happens.
That is the best DIY shot.

Don't know where you are wrt Memphis, but Memphis Autoworks (https://www.bimrs.org/profiles/MemphisMW.html) is listed on www.bimrs.org, and several other BMW shops are listed on www.bimmershops.com - https://www.bimmershops.com/search?q=tn

You seem to have relatively low miles, so it's not likely to be one of the more expensive problems (NOx, DEF tanks, SCR Catalyst). These problems are usually solvable for less than $1K, often less (the metering valve is around $500 or so to replace.)

It might also be the active tank's heater, which is repairable in the 328d (not in older models.)[/QUOTE]

THANK YOU for the link regarding the SCR system. I'm on mobile currently but later this afternoon I'll be around a computer and will download and study and potentially have more questions regarding what I understand/don't understand.


I'm glad I'm at least on the right page regarding my DIY fix. Question is, I cannot find and literature telling me where the metering valve is. I do not have the repair manual, but am ordering one... what did I say about hindsight? LOL So in the meantime I've found two forums regarding the metering valve but neither specified what vehicle. One said the metering valve is located on top of one of the DEF tanks and can be accessed from the trunk. The other I didn't quite understand as they said something about it being visible via engine bay, sort of near positive terminal. The trunk one makes more sense and I'll go look for it tonight, but would you have any guidance regarding location? Perhaps it's in the PDF you sent and this question will answer itself.

You mentioned the more expensive problems being solved for less than $1k. Where at? The independent shops? This is a genuine question. All of my researching has scarred me regarding pricing for the emissions system. I had read multiple scenarios where the car went to BMW and they just threw parts at it until they found the issue and the owner walked away with a $3k - $4k bill. I understand and respect that this isn't a cheap car, but there has to be more logic to it than that. I remember reading about one poor guy who had spent $3,800 at BMW and ended up just taking it for a tune and delete to solve the issue.

So that leads me to - during a potentially convoluted repair, how do you become your car's and your wallet'a best advocate? I assume thorough shop research, but do you discuss with the shop your budget restrictions and that part replacement needs to be as precise as possible? This is the first car I've owned that I may potentially need to bring to a shop so that's why I'm asking these dumb questions. Everything I've ever owned before were simple gasoline engines with nothing fancy and we've always just done the work ourselves. This is why I don't even know a good mechanic.. and like I said, I'm kicking myself for that.

That being said, thank you so much for that link to the BMW mechanics! There are actually a few within an hour of me, so I'll start doing some research to see who seems reputable and honest.

Thank you so much!

Here's another most likely painfully ignorant question - let's say I clean the metering valve, maybe even flush the tanks, and refill with DEF fluid and that does fix the issue. With the car remove the 200 mile 'til no start count down on its own or do I need to clear the codes? I don't currently have a code reader compatible with this BMW (so many lessons learned in such a short timeframe LOL) so I take it to my local auto parts store to read the codes and potentially clear them. When it threw these codes he tried clearing but they are "permanent" codes. There's another word for what they are but I just can't think of it. Essentially it was explained to me by another BMW enthusiast that the car runs 3 checks regarding nitrogen levels, and upon the 3rd pass if levels are still incorrect it throws the code and the code remains until the sensors detect normal levels. That being said, if I try to DIY the old girl and it does fix it, could the car potentially reset the codes on its own after 10 or so miles of driving? Or will I need to go get the codes cleared and potentially, if I fixed the issue, the codes will be clearable? I could potentially find this out myself but I do like to know what to expect, especially since joy riding to find out if I fixed something or not is extremely intimidating when I only have 160 miles 'til no start and I'd hate to have to tow the car to a repair shop down the road if this doesn't fix the issue. I truly wish there was a way to disable that count down so I didn't feel so pressured in my decision making! But oh well. Any thoughts or resources is super appreciated and thank you again.

So. Many. Lessons. Learned. Such is life, I guess!

Last edited by xcftw; 01-12-2018 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: To Add
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      01-12-2018, 11:11 AM   #4
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You can find manuals here. Not the easiest to navigate, but they're there.

The SCR meter for 328d should be under the highlighted cover in the pic below (note that there may be anti-tamper/regular person screws used to secure that cover and you might need to buy the special socket also in the photo - part number for that also in the pic):
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      01-12-2018, 12:30 PM   #5
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You guys have been THE MOST awesome!

I'll order the anti-tamper tonight and jack the car up in the morning and see what there is to see.

Will update as I have them!

UPDATE:

I cannot find what I am looking for. That being said, I am looking for a "SCR metering valve" and I'm using a picture off of a 335D for location and reference. Mine does not have what that car has. Instead, I have this similar but also different looking part whose part number I looked up and it came back as a DEF dosing module. This may be a dense and ignorant question... but I'm trying to learn... is that the same thing as the SCR metering valve on that 335D that I was looking at? (I'm using the 335D as reference since that car has been the most in depth, and honestly only, walk through I've found... I'm assuming that's due to this being extremely simple and my ignorance is what's making it tough!)

What's your thoughts? And thank you!

Last edited by xcftw; 01-13-2018 at 01:21 AM..
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      01-13-2018, 12:26 PM   #6
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Apparently I have no idea what I am doing as what I thought was my metering valve had a coolant line attached to it.. wasn't expecting that.

I feel as if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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      01-13-2018, 12:28 PM   #7
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Now I feel extra stupid as I finally found the repair guide for the metering valve and it says there's a coolant line.

Goodness I worry myself sometimes.
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      01-14-2018, 02:34 PM   #8
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Successfully cleaned the metering valve and added new fluid. Drove 25 miles and even though the CEL has not come back on, the incorrect fluid warning has. Took the car to have codes read and P20EE and P207F remain stored.

Assuming CEL isn't currently on due to having the battery disconnected for 4 hours yesterday.
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      02-03-2018, 06:02 AM   #9
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You might want to check if your car has the carb emission or federal emission warranty.
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      04-12-2018, 03:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcftw View Post
Successfully cleaned the metering valve and added new fluid. Drove 25 miles and even though the CEL has not come back on, the incorrect fluid warning has. Took the car to have codes read and P20EE and P207F remain stored.

Assuming CEL isn't currently on due to having the battery disconnected for 4 hours yesterday.

Did you ever figure it out or get it fixed!?
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      05-03-2021, 04:05 PM   #11
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Hey all, revisiting this post because my 2015 BMW 328d is flashing the P2201 P20EE and P207f codes, along with the "no start in 188 miles". I am at 150k miles, so out of warranty (unless there is a California or Federal warranty for emissions requirements I am missing)? Dealer wants $290 to take a look, but I am afraid if they see an emissions issue here in California they will not give me the car back until it is fixed. My cousin owns and autoshop, should I ask him to clean the metering valve? I topped off the DEF tank with some DEF from Napa (about 2.5 gallons), should I have that flushed and fill up with the VW of BMW specific DEF? And while he is there clean the NOX sensors? If that doesn't work I am thinking of having him replace the NOX sensors front and back, and if THAT STILL doesn't clear the issue then take it to the dealership and pray I don't get gouged. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

Super bummed because I was going to start autocrossing the BMW in two weeks.

Thanks in advance!
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      05-03-2021, 07:30 PM   #12
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I would get BMW manufacturer codes with either a BMW oriented scanner or BimmerLink or other computer based diag tools. It would provide you with much more specific codes. P codes can be vague.

Cleaning NOX sensors doesn't help, they can go bad.

Did you refill the DEF really recently with potentially lower quality fluid? If not, replacement of the NOX sensors would probably be higher on the list.

You can drain some and top off with good quality DEF and use a BMW tool to reset the "SCR adaptations" BEFORE the counter gets close to 0, which will give you another 200 miles or more for reevaluation of your fix.

You would do the same exact procedure after replacing the NOX sensors. SCR adaptations reset
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      05-04-2021, 12:17 PM   #13
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Thanks Enabled for the advice. I am going to flush the DEF since the first message I got was a P207F message which cleared when I added the 2.5 gallons of DEF from NAPA, and then I started getting the other errors about a day after. I also ordered one of the OBD/Bluetooth connectors for Bimmercode to get the manufacturer codes so I have a better idea of what I am dealing with. Praying the flush fixes the issue, thanks for your help!
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      05-11-2021, 12:01 PM   #14
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So I ended up flushing out the entire DEF system and refilling with genuine BMW DEF. Error codes were still there and so was the countdown, drove about 5 mins then everything cleared up. I am happy to say my car is running fine now with zero codes. Only cost me $450 to flush and refill, but lesson learned about these very picky N47'sand DEF. Thanks for the advice all!
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      05-11-2021, 01:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbinckes View Post
So I ended up flushing out the entire DEF system and refilling with genuine BMW DEF. Error codes were still there and so was the countdown, drove about 5 mins then everything cleared up. I am happy to say my car is running fine now with zero codes. Only cost me $450 to flush and refill, but lesson learned about these very picky N47'sand DEF. Thanks for the advice all!
Interesting. Hope it stays good! I recommend getting VW DEF next time you need a fill. Very cheap (cheaper than the stuff at Walmart) and quality. I run that in my 328d whenever it needs to be filled.
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      05-30-2021, 11:35 AM   #16
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I run the brand name stuff not Bmw myself Farkle because they have high turnover with all the local diesel truck owners. Especially when you buy at the local Walmart.

I don’t run the off brand Walmart stuff.

Where it is higher priced (like Napa/BMW) you put see it sitting on the shelf... dusty.

And the stuff does expire.
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      05-30-2021, 01:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Interesting. Hope it stays good! I recommend getting VW DEF next time you need a fill. Very cheap (cheaper than the stuff at Walmart) and quality. I run that in my 328d whenever it needs to be filled.
+1 on this. My local VW dealer sells the 10L jug for $8.80. It (obviously) meets the ISO 22241-1 spec called for in the VW and BMW* manuals.

*BMW manual says...
Quote:
▷ Recommended: BMW Diesel Exhaust Fluid. With this bottle and its special adapter, diesel exhaust fluid can be replenished simply and safely.

▷ Alternatively recommended: NOx Diesel exhaust fluid AUS 32.
AUS 32 is the generic name for 32% dilution DEF, which is part of the ISO 22241-1 spec.
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      05-31-2021, 09:25 AM   #18
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+1 always used VW since I bought at 30k
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      05-24-2023, 12:23 PM   #19
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Hello, just wondering what kind of OBD II did you buy to analyst and reset the BIMMER codes. I got 328d 2014 and I'm troubleshooting the P053A code. PCV Heater control circuit/open.
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      05-25-2023, 07:46 AM   #20
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My 2014 328d with 110,000 miles also had the "incorrect exhaust fluid - no start in 200 miles" warning

Used Bimmerlink to scan for fault codes and had these:
28EB00: NOX sensor in front of cat, plausibility, NOX signal too slow
26F500: DENOX system, efficiency, too low range 1
26FD00: Reducing agent dosage, long term adaption, adaption value too high
2C4E00: DENOX system, plausibility: system error or poor reducing agent quality
29FB00: DENOX system ;warning and switch off scenario, warning level 1
29FC00: DENOX system waring and switch off scenario, warning level 2

DEF fluid tank is full and fluid is not old. Also have white coating on exhaust tip. I track the DEF usage and noticed that it has been erratic over the past year. This recent instance had it using 3 or 4 times as much for a given mileage period. Also had EGR recall done about 750 miles ago; dont know if that has any relevance

These were my initial conclusions:

1. The injector/valve is dirty and causing poor injection. Never been cleaned
2. Pre-cat and/or post/cat NOX sensors are faulty. They are originals
3. The DEF fluid being actually incorrect or low quality is rarely the root problem.
4. Other SCR system problems

The NOX sensor warranty is extended to 120k miles.

Solution: took the car to dealer where they replaced both Nox sensors under warranty, but still had the warning. They replaced the catalytic converter, which resolved my issue. $3400
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      05-25-2023, 03:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rparnel1 View Post
My 2014 328d with 110,000 miles also had the "incorrect exhaust fluid - no start in 200 miles" warning

Used Bimmerlink to scan for fault codes and had these:
28EB00: NOX sensor in front of cat, plausibility, NOX signal too slow
26F500: DENOX system, efficiency, too low range 1
26FD00: Reducing agent dosage, long term adaption, adaption value too high
2C4E00: DENOX system, plausibility: system error or poor reducing agent quality
29FB00: DENOX system ;warning and switch off scenario, warning level 1
29FC00: DENOX system waring and switch off scenario, warning level 2

DEF fluid tank is full and fluid is not old. Also have white coating on exhaust tip. I track the DEF usage and noticed that it has been erratic over the past year. This recent instance had it using 3 or 4 times as much for a given mileage period. Also had EGR recall done about 750 miles ago; dont know if that has any relevance

These were my initial conclusions:

1. The injector/valve is dirty and causing poor injection. Never been cleaned
2. Pre-cat and/or post/cat NOX sensors are faulty. They are originals
3. The DEF fluid being actually incorrect or low quality is rarely the root problem.
4. Other SCR system problems

The NOX sensor warranty is extended to 120k miles.

Solution: took the car to dealer where they replaced both Nox sensors under warranty, but still had the warning. They replaced the catalytic converter, which resolved my issue. $3400
$3400?! Hell no, I'd have gotten a used one on eBay.
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      03-20-2024, 10:42 AM   #22
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sorry to come back to this thread ive been trying to do some digging but looking to buy a 14 328d and looking to delete it and tune it. im from new hampshire and was curious if anyone has deleted there car and had issues with getting there inspections done? if not what tune and exhaust set up are you running and did you also delete your egr?
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