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      03-21-2018, 04:06 PM   #1
vancitymike
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Will I wreck my car if I autocross it?

I'm thinking about trying it - I'm totally fine wearing down some brakes and tires, but not interested in killing everything in a day...

If you're being nice to your car, what is your point where you back off? Can anything bad happen? Will a few runs really do anything at all? I'm totally new at this, thanks in advance
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      03-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #2
overcoil
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I don’t autocross or track my 235 because of what I perceive as the stress - won’t do maximum acceleration from a dead stop or power slide in the dry. I will do high-speed runs and high speed cornering, accelerate hard once the car is moving and in the wet will activate ABS and oversteer.

Will you notice a difference in your car if you autoX monthly ? I guess it’s what happens over accumulation of events - how long and how many But a car that sees LOTS of track or autoX can feel looser or clapped our.

Last edited by overcoil; 03-22-2018 at 08:34 PM..
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      03-22-2018, 12:41 PM   #3
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I have been autocrossing for 35 years and have yet to suffer any "issues" other than cone boogers that are easily removed with a little cleaner/wax. Any responsible organization holding an autocross will adhere to safety rules about keeping the course away far enough away from anything you could possible hit and damage your car. The only real problems I have witnessed were with cars that were fairly heavily modified.

As a beginner you most likely won't be experiencing anything beyond tire wear on the outer shoulders of your front tires. Just go do it! Don't be shy about talking to people and asking questions - like recommended tire pressure for starters.
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      03-22-2018, 12:49 PM   #4
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Driving a car hard will wear down components over time. If you are using R compound tires or slicks, you will wear down components faster because they weren't designed for all of that extra grip. A few runs won't do anything bad to your car. Let me put it to you this way: the M235i Racing is built off of the same platform as the stock M235i. The main differences are upgraded suspension, bigger brakes, widebody kit to fit bigger tires/wheels, extra cooling, plus all of the safety items and removal of unnecessary weight. Same engine, same transmission, same unibody, same chassis, same lsd (if you have one), etc. That car is an endurance car so most of the upgrades are related to making is drive at 10/10s for very long periods (24 hrs nonstop aside from pit stops). That car is also rated for 30,000 miles before an engine rebuild. 30,000 racing miles. I was told that whenever the m235i racing that's located in Dallas came in for the rebuild, its components had barely worn. In comparison, a Porsche cup car is rated for 40 hrs before a rebuild - at an average of 70mph on the track, that's 2,800 whopping miles.

It's a car, and clearly a very robust car. I highly doubt that you could do any real harm to it. Go buy a helmet, change out the brake fluid for some motul 600, and go have fun!
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      03-22-2018, 01:37 PM   #5
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I took mine on a HPDE event and did a few iterations and it stood up perfect! The instructor who was running a 2017 Camaro ZL1 was impressed with how it held up. Had it in sport +
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      03-22-2018, 08:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semclane View Post
I have been autocrossing for 35 years and have yet to suffer any "issues" other than cone boogers that are easily removed with a little cleaner/wax. Any responsible organization holding an autocross will adhere to safety rules about keeping the course away far enough away from anything you could possible hit and damage your car. The only real problems I have witnessed were with cars that were fairly heavily modified.

As a beginner you most likely won't be experiencing anything beyond tire wear on the outer shoulders of your front tires. Just go do it! Don't be shy about talking to people and asking questions - like recommended tire pressure for starters.
The three to six 1-2 minute runs you will make in Auto-X will only damage the edge of your tires. Especially a 2 series, which does not have enough negative camber to protect them. I Auto-X'd for 5 years and never had any other issues. It is a great way to get into high performance driving and helped me a great deal when I started doing HPDE and M Schools.

The real risk is to your wallet when you decide to purchase stickier tires and dedicated wheels
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      03-22-2018, 11:08 PM   #7
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Add some extra pressure to the tires, mainly the fronts, and go have some fun.

Don't expect great lap times with a M235i as it's very heavy and the tires are a little narrow.

Smoother is faster, I have a hard time remembering that on track.
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      03-28-2018, 07:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
.....Let me put it to you this way: the M235i Racing is built off of the same platform as the stock M235i. The main differences are upgraded suspension, bigger brakes, widebody kit to fit bigger tires/wheels, extra cooling, plus all of the safety items and removal of unnecessary weight. Same engine, same transmission, same unibody, same chassis, same lsd (if you have one), etc. That car is an endurance car so most of the upgrades are related to making is drive at 10/10s for very long periods (24 hrs nonstop aside from pit stops). That car is also rated for 30,000 miles before an engine rebuild. 30,000 racing miles. I was told that whenever the m235i racing that's located in Dallas came in for the rebuild, its components had barely worn. In comparison, a Porsche cup car is rated for 40 hrs before a rebuild - at an average of 70mph on the track, that's 2,800 whopping miles.

Very impressive, and also very reassuring (and not surprising about the Porsche - they long ago abandoned being the ultimate engine, ushering in the age of the 'replaced under partial warranty').
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      03-28-2018, 09:13 AM   #9
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Definitely give it a try! It's a lot of fun and will teach you how to control your car better.

You won't get remotely close to killing anything at a single autox event, especially as a novice. You usually get a handful of runs that are about a minute long (although it varies by club and venue).

Anything bad can happen anywhere, but your event organizers should be the ones concerned about safety of everyone there from participants to spectators to workers. You won't damage anything on your car, either, as long as you're being mindful of the rules and the course.

Honestly, it's just mostly tires, brakes, and fuel. As cars and its components age, the bushings may crack or get loose at a slightly accelerated pace (if you autox very often) but this isn't something you need to worry about for a long time.

Just get out there and have fun. Don't worry about being fast or mods or making any changes to your car as that won't benefit you when you're first starting out. Get as many rides with other people as possible, don't turn down any instruction, and make friends with others so you can learn more/faster.

Have fun and report back.

Last edited by cxp213; 03-28-2018 at 09:18 AM..
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      04-01-2018, 07:59 AM   #10
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In my view, you'd be damaging things severely if you DON'T do autocross or track days. These cars have way too much performance built in that cannot be experienced on public roads. Go do some track days and have some real fun.
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      04-01-2018, 09:25 AM   #11
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This article is from 2004 but it may be helpful

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...makers-are-not
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      04-05-2018, 03:34 PM   #12
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Helpful, but a scary thought, especially after signing up for my first HPDE.
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      04-12-2018, 01:19 PM   #13
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I bet that evo driver miss shifted and over rev the engine.
Manufacturer can void warranty IF they found out evidence that damage was due to racing.

It is unlikely you damage your car with AutoX. You will destroy your tires for sure.

It's a must to do, especially with a car like 2 series.
It's very fun and you can learn a lot about your car control.

To be honest, it should be part of the driver's license test. That type of performance driving at the grip limit will teach you a lot.

Also, I learned that driving fast on public road is so lame, after I AutoX.

Go to AutoX and have some fun. Don't try to be a hero on first try.
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      04-10-2021, 06:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
I took mine on a HPDE event and did a few iterations and it stood up perfect! The instructor who was running a 2017 Camaro ZL1 was impressed with how it held up. Had it in sport +
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
I took mine on a HPDE event and did a few iterations and it stood up perfect! The instructor who was running a 2017 Camaro ZL1 was impressed with how it held up. Had it in sport +
nice. I have a question for ya or anyone who can help? what mode do you use when you track it. move handle to the left, put in sport +? what about dsc? I heard when you turn dsc off it will go to comfort mode?
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      04-10-2021, 06:12 PM   #15
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A lot of people will say 'sport +'. I'm going to argue for plain sport mode, and with it set to 'chassis only' (in idrive). The reason is that sport + enables the 'fast throttle' setting. Plain sport will also do this if not in 'chassis only'.

The 'fast throttle' is a problem because you are traction limited accelerating out of a corner, and with the 'fast throttle' you lose a lot of fine control. It is much harder to apply just the right amount of throttle when the power delivery is not linear.

Others will say 'DSC Off'. I only do DSC Off for auto-cross or small/slow training tracks. Places where your speed stays relatively slow (<60 mph), and if the car gets away from you it won't hit anything. If you are out on a big track (a real race course), and the car gets away from you, it is very easy to hit something and really mess things up. And a small tight auto-cross course is the perfect place to play with letting the back getting a little out of control. At 100+ with a wall 20' away, not so much.

Every HPDE weekend I've been to, some poor person loses it and destroys their car. I gave a ride home to one of these people, and the level of regret was heartbreaking.

Sure the nannies will kick in a bit if you're just in Sport mode. But frankly, in most cases, that means you probably aren't driving smooth enough.

Oh, and definitely transmission in sport/manual mode (clicked left), and manual paddle shifting. You really want the control of manual mode, and the quick shifts of sport mode.
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      04-11-2021, 12:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normanb219 View Post
nice. I have a question for ya or anyone who can help? what mode do you use when you track it. move handle to the left, put in sport +? what about dsc? I heard when you turn dsc off it will go to comfort mode?
sport + = sport (chassis and drivertrain) & Traction mode which will allow a bit of wheel spin but will kick in safety programs if parameters get out of wack

DSC OFF = all safety programs off and will turn on the e-LSD which will try to brake the inside wheel to transfer torque to the outside wheel

indeed DSC OFF puts the drivetrain setting to comfort and chassis to sport...

like ggggbmw said you can configure SPORT to just chassis.... to avoid the sensitive throttle... but you will also lose the ability to have the more relaxed safety controls of the TRACTION or SPORT+ modes

Shifter you probably want it to the left and hit the paddles once to go into manual

i would try SPORT+ or SPORT (only chassis)... I wouldn't do DSC OFF unless you know what you are doing
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      04-20-2021, 02:11 PM   #17
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I would recommend against SPORT+ for autocrossing. Exiting those tight turns and trying to put down power, you're going to spin that inside tire and be really hurting for grip.

At an autocross you have little to lose car control wise other than sideswiping a cone. My first choice would be DSC off. After a small delay, the e-LSD will do its thing and you'll have much better grip powering out of turns. I also think the SPORT+ throttle is just too touch. You'll have a much more linear pedal feel with DSC OFF.

HPDEs, one of the SPORT modes is the safer bet, although experienced people will go DSC off.
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      04-20-2021, 09:40 PM   #18
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The best car to take to the track is someone else's
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      05-03-2021, 08:23 AM   #19
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Try it out, it's a ton of fun.
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