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M2 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip > Staggered vs Squared in Sport Plus Mode

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      04-09-2018, 10:15 AM   #1
Beyond Help
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Staggered vs Squared in Sport Plus Mode

Hello everyone!

I had my 1st track event yesterday with the M2. Car performed great but I had some issues. I started the day out slow in Sport+ but really got a feel of the car so I started pushing it quite a bit and noticed that when trying to exit a corner the car kept puling power on acceleration. I know for a fact the rear tires were not slipping and the computer should not have been intervening so much, even after the car got settled it was pulling power for a few seconds. I did attempt DSC OFF on 4th session but from habit of holding WOT in Sport+ I did the same with DSC OFF instead of controlling throttle, I spun out no biggie.

Im running squared setup right now TR C4 wheels w/ 275/35/18 R888R tyres. So my question is could it be possible the computer is pulling power in Sport+ because of the squared setup? If so Ill try 255/35Front & 275/35Rear to see what happens when I track it next week.

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      04-09-2018, 02:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond Help View Post
Hello everyone!

I know for a fact the rear tires were not slipping and the computer should not have been intervening so much, even after the car got settled it was pulling power for a few seconds. I did attempt DSC OFF on 4th session but from habit of holding WOT in Sport+ I did the same with DSC OFF instead of controlling throttle, I spun out no biggie.
Your rear tires were not slipping because traction control was working. The computer is pulling power because your pushing the throttle too soon/too hard out of a corner. Just the fact that you said you spun out when you went DSC off proves this. You're not supposed to be holding WOT throughout an entire turn, but I assume you're only doing this for certain turns.

Switching to skinnier fronts isn't going to give the rear more grip, I would recommend just keeping DSC off all the time and not using the crutch of traction control to help you. It'll eventually get to a point where traction control will be slowing you down.
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      04-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasypeanut View Post
Your rear tires were not slipping because traction control was working. The computer is pulling power because your pushing the throttle too soon/too hard out of a corner. Just the fact that you said you spun out when you went DSC off proves this. You're not supposed to be holding WOT throughout an entire turn, but I assume you're only doing this for certain turns.

Switching to skinnier fronts isn't going to give the rear more grip, I would recommend just keeping DSC off all the time and not using the crutch of traction control to help you. It'll eventually get to a point where traction control will be slowing you down.
Thanks for your input! Switching to skinnier front tires was for the purpose of having a staggered setup. I found a few threads stating if you have a squared setup the computer kicks in traction control more than normal this could be false. Maybe Ill take my stock tires with next week to compare. I agree at some point traction control will slow me down maybe I should just turn it off and take it a little slower.

Computer was pulling power on turns regardless of how much throttle I was giving in Sport+. I was on the same track with a 228i last year I understand the car was less powerful but it was 100% stock including tires. There is a small turn you can pretty much do WOT leading into a longer straightaway. M2 computer kept pulling power even a few seconds after the turn was completed. I honestly think I had a higher top speed with the 228i than the M2 on that straightaway.

Last edited by Beyond Help; 04-09-2018 at 03:54 PM..
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      04-09-2018, 03:58 PM   #4
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DSC off is more fun too! A little slide here, a little drift there, saving yourself from spinning out. Super fun and very gratifying.
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      04-09-2018, 04:58 PM   #5
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Square setup is actually more neutral than staggered. You just need to get used to it. Full DTC off is the way you should go. Why spend all that track time learning the car with DTC on when it will behave vastly differently with DTC off?

P.S Sport+ is probably horrible at track the shifts are too aggressive.
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      04-11-2018, 07:14 AM   #6
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Slightly different perspective...first, it is less the traction control and more the stability control I think we are talking about here. In Sport+, traction control is "Off" and you are in MDM mode.

Stock MDM is shockingly restrictive in my limited experience with the car, much as described by the OP. At Summit Point in my season opener, and first time with the M2 I experimented with the settings. MDM was pulling power on corner exits, so I worked on my smoothness and it helped slightly, but it was still really intrusive. I switched to DSC off and picked up 4 seconds on a 2 mile track immediately. No sliding, etc.

I decided to code a few things out on the car last week, and while doing so switched to Euro MDM. I figured I would try it out once to see the difference, but was not expecting much. During the past two days at VIR I was pleasantly surprised. No inappropriate intervention and yielded the same lap times as DSC Off. It did intervene noticeably on only two occasions over two days of open track, appropriately, when I made mistakes...but if I was smooth I was rewarded.

I have a staggered setup and MT. Apex FL-5's with Pirelli DH Slicks (265/645/18 - 285/645/18).
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      04-11-2018, 10:55 PM   #7
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First off sport+ is for the street. On track the throttle is far too touchy to keep the nannies from interfering. Also the nannies are annoying and intrusive when you bought a car most highly praised for its balance rendering the nannies unnecessary for all but beginners. If you are a beginner then stop spending money on upgrades for the car and spend it on track time (not just you but in general). Bottom line, as others have said, is properly smooth inputs, pedals and steering, will not only solve most of these problems but make you faster overall.
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      04-11-2018, 10:58 PM   #8
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Also the fact that you have a tune could be part of the issue. God knows how the computer reacts to different power levels than designed applied to the wheels vs nannies trying to keep you from breaking loose.
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      04-11-2018, 11:29 PM   #9
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Curious as to what setting most started with first time at the track with the M2?
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      04-12-2018, 03:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just blaze View Post
Curious as to what setting most started with first time at the track with the M2?
I was DTC off 100% at autocross. I did about a dozen autocrosses before I started doing track days. I learned a lot of car control and had many a spin out.

My first few track days I drove with DTC on.
Then at third or so track day I let a friend drive my car while I rode along.
He turned DTC off. After that I never drove with it on again.

You learn a lot with DTC off, especially what happens when you lift off throttle in an off camber corner. It better teaches you how to use the throttle to steer and how to be smooth with the throttle.

I'd say I've had one spin due to DTC off since I started driving with it off, and that was way back.
I've gone off track :-) a few times since but that was mostly brakes giving up or going too wide.
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      04-12-2018, 05:40 PM   #11
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I wanted to thank everyone for their input so far! Looks like DSC OFF is the way to go for track. I will be doing 3 more track events this month Ill make sure to take things a little slower in the beginning to avoid taking the car off track.
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