THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics Tracking / Autocrossing KW for street and track

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-30-2018, 06:26 AM   #1
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
1072
Rep
2,351
Posts

Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

KW for street and track

Hi

Can someone elaborate on KW V1/2/3 for daily and light trackday use? The factory suspension on my M135i is about as firm as I'd like it for the crappy Chinese roads so how to best approach an upgrade for trackdays?

Maybe a set of anti-roll bars would be a good place to start?

- Niels
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2018, 08:16 AM   #2
Maynard
Colonel
United_States
3805
Rep
2,860
Posts

Drives: 228iX & M2C
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (1)

If you want to retain street usability, I'd suggest getting a second set of wheels and track or semi-track tires, and track brake pads/fluid (or semi-track pads, if you plan to leave them on for the street). Anything you do to firm up the suspension will cost you street compliance, with significant handling degradation on rough roads; on track I think you will notice the tires/brakes more than a small improvement in roll control. If you go with the ultra-summer tires, you can even use them on the street, especially when it is dry out (17" wheel/tires seem to also resist punctures and sidewall damage better than the 18 or 19"ers).
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2018, 10:17 AM   #3
Anthony235
Lieutenant Colonel
Anthony235's Avatar
United_States
715
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: OC, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Hi

Can someone elaborate on KW V1/2/3 for daily and light trackday use? The factory suspension on my M135i is about as firm as I'd like it for the crappy Chinese roads so how to best approach an upgrade for trackdays?

Maybe a set of anti-roll bars would be a good place to start?

- Niels
What is your current setup? OEM?

I have no real world experience with the V line from KW. I run their Clubsport model, but honestly I would take BC coilovers over the V line. Do the Swift spring upgrade from them and they should also come with camber plates. Just a thought.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2018, 11:54 PM   #4
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
1072
Rep
2,351
Posts

Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
What is your current setup? OEM?

I have no real world experience with the V line from KW. I run their Clubsport model, but honestly I would take BC coilovers over the V line. Do the Swift spring upgrade from them and they should also come with camber plates. Just a thought.
Yes, factory setup now. Factory is far from horrible on track but less roll in the corners would be nice. I'll look into a set of ARB...
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2018, 09:57 PM   #5
msendit
First Lieutenant
msendit's Avatar
416
Rep
321
Posts

Drives: M240i
Join Date: May 2018
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Can someone elaborate on KW V1/2/3 for daily and light trackday use?
I'm running the V3 on an '18 M240i (actually wanted the clubsports, but KW told my shop they don't have a version for the M240 yet, just the M235). So far, about 5000mi and 7-8 track days on them.

On the street, they are fine for my taste. Definitely a firmer ride than stock and I have to pay attention on crappy roads. But then, I'm optimizing mostly for track (monoball bushings, camber, etc), so I'm a bit more tolerant to harshness #becauseracecar. For long drives, 2-3 clicks looser on front rebound makes things a lot better.

On the track, the difference is very significant. More planted and predictable than stock, especially so on tracks with many fast corners (Thunderhill West here in NorCal). There is still body roll, but by far not as much as before (I'll probably switch to stiffer springs and/or rollbars soon). As any coilovers, bump/rebound adjustability is also nice to quickly fine tune behavior trackside. I'm still learning how to properly setup, but for example, a few weeks ago my rears were rolling over too much (not enough rear camber), and dialing in a bit more front rebound helped them last 2 more track days.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2018, 11:51 PM   #6
cxp213
Lieutenant
cxp213's Avatar
313
Rep
525
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

KW V1 is an entry-level coilover and not really track worthy, providing you with a little firmer ride but no shock adjustability. V2 is sufficient for track novices and offers rebound adjustment, so you can make the ride rather compliant or firm it up a bit for the track -- this should be good enough for most people/usage. V3 has both rebound and compression adjustments, which can be confusing and overwhelming for someone who doesn't understand how they work. V3's probably a bit overkill unless you plan on tracking quite a bit; it'll provide a bit more room for you to grow into as you get more seat time but probably not necessary. If you like tinkering, have decent track experience, and/or are serious about tracking the car a lot more, then you might want to consider Clubsports if you're set on the KW line.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2018, 07:04 AM   #7
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
1072
Rep
2,351
Posts

Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

Sound like the V2 is probably where I want to be. I have no intentions running anything stickier than the AD08R.

How have you gone about with brakes? Mine did remarkably well on factory rotors + Dixel Z front pads. One cooling lap in the middle of a 25 min session.
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2018, 10:51 AM   #8
Anthony235
Lieutenant Colonel
Anthony235's Avatar
United_States
715
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: OC, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Sound like the V2 is probably where I want to be. I have no intentions running anything stickier than the AD08R.

How have you gone about with brakes? Mine did remarkably well on factory rotors + Dixel Z front pads. One cooling lap in the middle of a 25 min session.
The AD08R is a legit tire and is going to provide a lot more grip which will effect other components of your car. I don't think the spring rates on the V line are high enough for AD08R.

I don't know enough about those pads to say anything about them, but the AD08R with definitely work them more. Don't forget to match your brake fluid with the tire/pad as well. Motul RBF600 should work fine.

This is purely from a track perspective though. I know you have concerns about ride quality on the street too. Other than brake pads I daily drive my track setup
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2018, 05:25 PM   #9
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
1072
Rep
2,351
Posts

Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

From my trackday. Unfortunately my Gopro went bust so only have this video:

__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2018, 05:28 PM   #10
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
1072
Rep
2,351
Posts

Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Sound like the V2 is probably where I want to be. I have no intentions running anything stickier than the AD08R.

How have you gone about with brakes? Mine did remarkably well on factory rotors + Dixel Z front pads. One cooling lap in the middle of a 25 min session.
The AD08R is a legit tire and is going to provide a lot more grip which will effect other components of your car. I don't think the spring rates on the V line are high enough for AD08R.

I don't know enough about those pads to say anything about them, but the AD08R with definitely work them more. Don't forget to match your brake fluid with the tire/pad as well. Motul RBF600 should work fine.

This is purely from a track perspective though. I know you have concerns about ride quality on the street too. Other than brake pads I daily drive my track setup
I am actually running Motul RBF600 and had problems with the pedal going soft (stoptech brake hoses). Anthony235 share my experience with and there is an interesting discussion about the RBF600 here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=23260455
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2018, 10:12 AM   #11
Anthony235
Lieutenant Colonel
Anthony235's Avatar
United_States
715
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: OC, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
I am actually running Motul RBF600 and had problems with the pedal going soft (stoptech brake hoses). Anthony235 share my experience with and there is an interesting discussion about the RBF600 here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=23260455
You tagged and quoted me lol. RBF600 may not be the issue. I will say that I bled the fluid again and it felt much better afterwards. Either way I still think RBF is probably the best fluid other than probably SRF.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2018, 10:29 AM   #12
Anthony235
Lieutenant Colonel
Anthony235's Avatar
United_States
715
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: OC, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
From my trackday. Unfortunately my Gopro went bust so only have this video:

[url]https://youtu.be/otrGRh0GHVg/url]
That looks like a fun track!

I've been tracking a long time, but here is one from my first Bimmer Challenge Time Attack.

Appreciate 1
Dylan861330.00
      06-04-2018, 03:45 PM   #13
Dylan86
Colonel
Dylan86's Avatar
Canada
1330
Rep
2,214
Posts

Drives: F15d msport, F22 m235i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by msendit View Post
I'm running the V3 on an '18 M240i (actually wanted the clubsports, but KW told my shop they don't have a version for the M240 yet, just the M235). So far, about 5000mi and 7-8 track days on them.
Yikes, that is false info from KW, if the case.. The M235/40 shares the same suspension components, so M235 CS's would fit, provided they have the 5 bolt top hat. Anything else would be news, to me. Either way, V3's are still stellar.

Amazing what a couple of clicks does to the ride quality, hey? I went 2 clicks softer om my HS comp, and 1 click with the LS comp and it felt like I was on Dinan springs again (under damped, lol). Found that doing 1 click at a time works best for dialing in.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2018, 12:33 AM   #14
msendit
First Lieutenant
msendit's Avatar
416
Rep
321
Posts

Drives: M240i
Join Date: May 2018
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Yikes, that is false info from KW, if the case.. The M235/40 shares the same suspension components, so M235 CS's would fit
Yeah, I had a very hard time believing that as well. The only semi-reasonable explanation I can come up with is that N55->B58 changes the weight distribution, and might need slightly different spring rates. But even that's reaching. Much more likely the KW sales person was just reading from a list of models and didn't see the M240 there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Found that doing 1 click at a time works best for dialing in.
I learned that the hard way! First track day with the V3 my rear outside was wearing the outside edge too much, so I thought I was just driving it too hard and should just compensate with tightening the opposite corner a little. My "little" was 3 clicks. Only on one side. I spun immediately on the first hard left-hander of the warmup lap right after Later found out I must have hit a berm or a pothole too hard because the toe on that wheel was just way off...
Appreciate 1
Dylan861330.00
      06-06-2018, 02:13 PM   #15
Dylan86
Colonel
Dylan86's Avatar
Canada
1330
Rep
2,214
Posts

Drives: F15d msport, F22 m235i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by msendit View Post
Yeah, I had a very hard time believing that as well. The only semi-reasonable explanation I can come up with is that N55->B58 changes the weight distribution, and might need slightly different spring rates. But even that's reaching. Much more likely the KW sales person was just reading from a list of models and didn't see the M240 there.



I learned that the hard way! First track day with the V3 my rear outside was wearing the outside edge too much, so I thought I was just driving it too hard and should just compensate with tightening the opposite corner a little. My "little" was 3 clicks. Only on one side. I spun immediately on the first hard left-hander of the warmup lap right after Later found out I must have hit a berm or a pothole too hard because the toe on that wheel was just way off...
It's a shame when vendors don't have the accurate fitment issue, especially with the costs associated to these types of purchases. Forums are great resources for questions like these, usually get accurate info much faster, lol

And yea, I could definitely see the car spinning out with 3 clicks higher on one side, lol. I have about three clicks in total between what I feel will be a good "track" setting, and street. There's 6 clicks each way from neutral, so 12 total clicks of adjustment (iirc). Can't imagine these things cranked tight, car would want to fish tail badly I'm sure. I use only one click down of rebound damping adjustment to get my reasonable street setting, from KW's recommended track setting.

D
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST