[vtknight]

Posted in the general section...I thought I would recreate here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ysg0Depmyjc

[Jez_zza]

I was just about to share this video
The head 2 head was so freaking close but it's another win for the F90

[CarlosM4]

Got to see the F90 in person and will drive it soon. It is pretty impressive, but I am still unsure if it is better than the W213 E63. Let's hope that driving it, things will be clearer.

[Wolfman64]

It’s a good review that points out not only the differences, pros/cons, but also describes how both MB and BMW has designed their cars to fit their customer base.

I like how BMW has implemented their RWD better even though I would likely rarely use it.

When it comes to looks, I am still biased (have the exact E63s as shown, but lower and a bit wider). The M5 still looks too tame to me, even with the performance parts...

[neohh]

Not sure why he compares ceramic brake on the e63s with steel brake on the M5 and conclude Merc has the better brake. Those are $13k upgrade here in Canada.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by neohh

Not sure why he compares ceramic brake on the e63s with steel brake on the M5 and conclude Merc has the better brake. Those are $13k upgrade here in Canada.

The E63 S in some countries and places has CCB as standard. If you opted for the Launch Edition or a random Package in Russia it already comes with CCB. While in the M5 F90 it is a stand alone option. Here in my side of the pond, it is the opposite. The E63 S CCB are stand alone options, and the M5 F90 CCB comes in a package
It is worth mentioning that the E63 S iron brakes are pretty similar in performance to the CCB, and there have been issues with E63 CCB's on the past.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The E63 S in some countries and places has CCB as standard. If you opted for the Launch Edition or a random Package in Russia it already comes with CCB. While in the M5 F90 it is a stand alone option. Here in my side of the pond, it is the opposite. The E63 S CCB are stand alone options, and the M5 F90 CCB comes in a package
It is worth mentioning that the E63 S iron brakes are pretty similar in performance to the CCB, and there have been issues with E63 CCB's on the past.

What types of issues ?

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

What types of issues ?

Problems with brake fluid, and excessive fading (totally the opposite to what CCB should be). There were cases where MB even replaced rotors. That happened here in Brazil, and I believe in USA as well.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by neohh

Not sure why he compares ceramic brake on the e63s with steel brake on the M5 and conclude Merc has the better brake. Those are $13k upgrade here in Canada.

The fact the steelies were as close as they were compared to the CCB's of the MB was pretty impressive. My takeaway. Definitely not going an additional 13K for that much difference lol...

[neohh]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The E63 S in some countries and places has CCB as standard. If you opted for the Launch Edition or a random Package in Russia it already comes with CCB. While in the M5 F90 it is a stand alone option. Here in my side of the pond, it is the opposite. The E63 S CCB are stand alone options, and the M5 F90 CCB comes in a package
It is worth mentioning that the E63 S iron brakes are pretty similar in performance to the CCB, and there have been issues with E63 CCB's on the past.

The point is that they should compare apple to apple. With the base MSRP difference, M5 with the CCB should still be less or equal to E63s.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by neohh

The point is that they should compare apple to apple. With the base MSRP difference, M5 with the CCB should still be less or equal to E63s.

They are comparing it in Russia. Things work differently in the US. The MSRP difference there is not as much as here. Besides most people lease these cars. So they see it as another 15 ou 20 usd a month, not a 13k option.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

They are comparing it in Russia. Things work differently in the US. The MSRP difference there is not as much as here. Besides most people lease these cars. So they see it as another 15 ou 20 usd a month, not a 13k option.

Ceramic brake is optional in Russia as well. Sure you can say in certain launch edition E63s comes with CCB, but M5 with CCB will be cheaper than E63s with CCB, regardless of which package or edition you are comparing. Again, compare apple to apple.

And btw, $13k option is gonna be A LOT more than $15USD per month. (unless you think the 4 years residual will be higher than 90%, lol)

[Wolfman64]

The brakes on the E63s have been stated in several comparos as less than ideal. This includes the CCB's. This has also been echoed on the MB forums.

I personally really like the CCB's on our car and feel they are very strong but have to admit there are no canyons here in MN and I haven't taken the car to the track yet.

AFAIK, CCB's for the E63s and the M5 are both sub-$9k in the US. The lack of brake dust alone is worth it

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by neohh

Ceramic brake is optional in Russia as well. Sure you can say in certain launch edition E63s comes with CCB, but M5 with CCB will be cheaper than E63s with CCB, regardless of which package or edition you are comparing. Again, compare apple to apple.

And btw, $13k option is gonna be A LOT more than $15USD per month. (unless you think the 4 years residual will be higher than 90%, lol)

It isn't. The price reality in Russia is different. I agree with you that CCB vs Steels isn't the most far, but it is a viable and coherent comparo, and doesn't cancel the result altogether. It is like Pano Roof E63 vs Carbon Fiber Roof M5. Not exactly 100% fair, but who cares, it doesn't cancel out the result of the comparo.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Wolfman64

The brakes on the E63s have been stated in several comparos as less than ideal. This includes the CCB's. This has also been echoed on the MB forums.

I personally really like the CCB's on our car and feel they are very strong but have to admit there are no canyons here in MN and I haven't taken the car to the track yet.

AFAIK, CCB's for the E63s and the M5 are both sub-$9k in the US. The lack of brake dust alone is worth it

To my eyes. AMG and BMW M brakes have always been borderline terrible. They do have great stopping distances, but the stopping distance is worse than it should be, given these cars real braking situation is not 60-0, but more like 100-0. The difference in braking when compared to a normal standard MB, BMW, Audi is too imperceptive.

Therefore I do understand the complain. AMG and BMW M brakes are underpowered and fade too quickly (the biggest hinder in track performance to my eyes), mainly due to the sheer mass of these cars.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

It isn't. The price reality in Russia is different. I agree with you that CCB vs Steels isn't the most far, but it is a viable and coherent comparo, and doesn't cancel the result altogether. It is like Pano Roof E63 vs Carbon Fiber Roof M5. Not exactly 100% fair, but who cares, it doesn't cancel out the result of the comparo.

I am not sure you checked but in Russia E63S' MSRP is around 350k ‎₽ more than the 2019 M5 Competition package. (Both without CCB.)

[zuschnell]

I'm not sure why people keep talking about the comparison between steel and ceramics. For one off stops, the difference is pretty negligible. For repeated high speed braking like on a track, ceramics are superior as there is little fade. But for street driving there is no difference other than dust. Head to head for a single braking test for the same model car equipped with steel vs ceramic, the stopping distances are about the same.