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      07-08-2008, 03:31 AM   #1
Sovereignty
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my 6MT vs. DCT

I have a 6MT M3 and my friend just got a DCT. last week he let me drive his car and I was really impressed how fast and how smooth the changes are in the DCT. I decided to race him and see how far he is going to pull a way from my car "considering that the DCT M3 is officially faster than the Manual transmission M3.
we started the first time from around 20 Miles/h and my car jumped ahead, then It was almost equal until 100m/h then after that I started pulling away, but not by that much. we tried again and the result was the same again.
I didn't expect that and I was shocked but happy .
However, I was really impressed with the smoothens of the DCT, still i think the 6MT is more fun to drive, and in my case it was bit faster, although the DCT felt faster due to the super fast and smooth changes I managed to be faster.
I want to know if any one have tried and had different results.

Last edited by Sovereignty; 07-08-2008 at 03:56 AM..
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      07-08-2008, 05:00 AM   #2
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Tried it and it was not the same, .....at each gear change, my DCT win half a car, and it continues....
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      07-08-2008, 06:34 AM   #3
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It's a driver's race I would guess. There isn't enough difference one way or the other to not get the tranny you really want, IMO. That for me is the 6MT. This thread should get plenty of traffic, BTW.
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      07-08-2008, 07:29 AM   #4
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From experience manual vs DSG always proved the dual clutch to be decidedly quicker, pulling a good half length with each change and that's with both car having only 6 gears. The M-DCT should be able to pull the half length per shift but also increase it distance through the gearing alone.

I can only reckon that there is a difference in the actual performance between the two M3 engines.
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      07-08-2008, 09:23 AM   #5
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In the e46 M3 the 6MT is faster than the SMG in comparisons like this. I would not be surprised to see it the same for the e90.

Well, except for the shifts at 100+mph...
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      07-08-2008, 09:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I can only reckon that there is a difference in the actual performance between the two M3 engines.
So when the 6MT wins, the engine is a ringer. When the M-DCT wins, it's because it's a superior piece? Got it.
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      07-08-2008, 09:35 AM   #7
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Was the DCT broken in yet?
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      07-08-2008, 10:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
So when the 6MT wins, the engine is a ringer. When the M-DCT wins, it's because it's a superior piece? Got it.
No I didn't say that. As I said, for experience I have found DSG to be quicker on every occasion by roughly the same amount. Now if engine performances were identical then it's logical to assume that with zero shift lose and better/tighter gearing the M-DCT should also be quicker and by a greater amount than with DSG.

In no way did I mean the manual was a ringer, only that factory variations may be the reason for different results, or as someone else commented on that one is run in and more loosened up than the other engine.

Don't read into things which aren't there.
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      07-08-2008, 10:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
Was the DCT broken in yet?
yes it was,
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      07-08-2008, 10:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereignty View Post
yes it was,
Then all I can assume is your factory engine is performing a bit better than the other factory engine. Lucky you.
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      07-08-2008, 10:41 AM   #11
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.....never seen a thread like this before.........
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      07-08-2008, 10:43 AM   #12
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i wonder if there's anything i can say to add value to this thread (another 6MT vs. MFMDCT) i doubt the engine has anything to do with it. unfortunately there's a big percentage of SMG and probably DCT owners that treat the transmission as plain automatic and they really do not know how to operate it. i would say the DCT person just doesnt know how to drive his car to its limits.
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      07-08-2008, 10:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
Was the DCT broken yet?
Not yet.
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      07-08-2008, 01:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
Not yet.
but you raced with it?
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      07-08-2008, 02:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
but you raced with it?
Randy was kidding and left out the 'in' of the quote.


Best regards, south
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      07-08-2008, 04:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Then all I can assume is your factory engine is performing a bit better than the other factory engine. Lucky you.
There could be other reasons:

Higher than spec parasitic losses in the DCT transmission
A problem with the DCT software shifting at the wrong point (bad sensor)
Higher than spec parasitic losses in the DCT diff
etc...

If there can be factory variations in the engine then I would think there could be factory variations in any other component? From what was posted I wonder how you know it's the engine?

Generally, I don't know that I can draw intelligent conclusions from these stories. It's anecdotal information unless someone ran a rigorously controlled test on a significant sample of cars. Until that point, I would be hard pressed to believe the MT shifts faster or is faster than the DCT. I'm still loving the hell out of my MT car and wouldn't trade it for the greatest automated car in the world, even though it is faster.
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      07-08-2008, 05:46 PM   #17
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My opinions and experience centred on the DSG transmission and though I will admit the two are different I can't believe that the M-DCT has more loss than the manual, in either the gearbox itself or the diff.

The only other logical thing must be the engine output, unless the driver in the DCT car was shifting too soon and dropping the revs slightly below the power band or was using S1 and it actually does slow the shift to keep thing ultra smooth, though I doubt this last reason as a viable one.
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      07-08-2008, 05:46 PM   #18
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I agree. I cant believe it either. I drove the DCT and as I said it felt faster but I also don't know how would someone find a hard time operating an automatic transmission.
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      07-08-2008, 05:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereignty View Post
I agree. I cant believe it either. I drove the DCT and as I said it felt faster but I also don't know how would someone find a hard time operating an automatic transmission.
Exactly, so like I said it must be that your engine is a bit stronger than his and you should count your lucky stars.
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      07-08-2008, 06:02 PM   #20
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OP you consider yourself a pretty good MT driver?
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      07-08-2008, 06:03 PM   #21
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Although I know that engines vary, i doubt that the difference would equate to such a noticeable difference, I think there are many more factor involved

These may include:

Tire temperature
M settings, (i.e. sport plus, edc etc.)
Exact reaction time at the start
the RPM of each car when you guys took off
M-dct setings and so on.
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      07-08-2008, 07:55 PM   #22
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It could be less parasitic losses through the 6MT. Either way, it's going to be a close race between the two.
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