M3 isn't that quick on the ring!!!

[footie]

If you have read the latest AUTOCAR mag you will already know what I am talking about, namely the Renault Megane R26R.

This little French Hothatch with only fwd and 227hp to power it's 1220Kgs frame has only gone and lapped the ring is a staggering 8mins and 12seconds.

Yeah that's right

8:12 from only a 227hp fwd Hothatch.

[Voltigeur]

-

That's cool: if all you want is a boy-racer hot hatch. A 7 secs' spread does not make me want to buy one (even is they were available in the US); different niche.

To me it's akin to the R&T test where the Evo wasn't THAT far behind the M3 - and the M3 wasn't that far behind a DBS. But they're not strict comparables.

[footie]

I know that but when you understand how much of a ring time is determined by how quick a car is on the long straights (the ring is a real power course) you then start to understand just what an achievement the Renault made.

This thing with an inferior chassis design and weight balance is out handling the M3 and all the other cars close to it's time.

[Ken37.73]

Of course you could just wait 12 months and buy a used one as a run around for about 12 quid !

[lucid]

The regression analysis I did would indicate a time of 8:27 for those weight/power specs.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ssion+analysis

That car deviates from the regression line by 15 seconds (the M3 by 3 seconds). Other cars that can do that are the CSL, the GT2, the GTR, the CLK 63 AMG, and the GT3. Not impossible.

Are you sure those weight/power specs are accurate?

[footie]

Originally Posted by lucid

The regression analysis I did would indicate a time of 8:27 for those weight/power specs.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ssion+analysis

That car deviates from the regression line by 15 seconds (the M3 by 3 seconds). Other cars that can do that are the CSL, the GT2, the GTR, the CLK 63 AMG, and the GT3. Not impossible.

Are you sure those weight/power specs are accurate?

100% sure on both weight and power. The R26R is running Toyo R-compound rubber as so many of these specials seem to do now-a-days. I need to come clean about the lap time, officially the time is 8:17 but prior to this time and on a slightly cooler day the same car recorded it's 8:12 time.

When you read that such a humble little car can achieve such amazing results you have to question why so many people disbelieve the achievements of a certain Japanese Sportscar with a heck of alot more power and a superior chassis.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by footie

100% sure on both weight and power. The R26R is running Toyo R-compound rubber as so many of these specials seem to do now-a-days. I need to come clean about the lap time, officially the time is 8:17 but prior to this time and on a slightly cooler day the same car recorded it's 8:12 time.

When you read that such a humble little car can achieve such amazing results you have to question why so many people disbelieve the achievements of a certain Japanese Sportscar with a heck of alot more power and a superior chassis.

Well, we beat the R compound rubber issue to death without convergence. I don't think the cars I mentioned were on R compound rubber. If you discount that from the "official" time you get really close to the regression number (sorry official is official in this context), so it wouldn't be that surprising in a way. Still a great lap though.

[footie]

I don't know how much the rubber is making to it's time and I doubt what another debate on this, I doubt you do either.

The 8:12 is being quoted as official in the Autocar magazine and is listed in their times with comparison cars (R8, M3, M6, RS4, M5, E46 M3, Cayman, etc) so in their mind this is the correct time.

I know I harp on about too many on this site and others disregarding anything that isn't rwd but when a machine with only 227hp is quicker than something with 500hp and BMW's ideal weight balance and rwd chassis you have to question who's setup is right and who's is wrong. I personally know which one is the more entertaining but I am not so sure it's the one which happes to be quickest.

[swamp2]

Uhhh, wrong. The M3 is "that quick" on the Ring. 8:05 is a darn good time. Look at the things faster. Your post titles suck, period. Why not just post the actual time obtained by this car? Incessant dogging of your new car is just too funny.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by footie

I know I harp on about too many on this site and others disregarding anything that isn't rwd but when a machine with only 227hp is quicker than something with 500hp and BMW's ideal weight balance and rwd chassis you have to question who's setup is right and who's is wrong.

The power numbers alone don't mean anything. Elise kicks ass. It's the power/weight ratio. Come on Footie, you know this.

Regardless, that is an impressive lap time...

[JEllis]

Great time for a little car!

Jason

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Uhhh, wrong. The M3 is "that quick" on the Ring. 8:05 is a darn good time. Look at the things faster. Your post titles suck, period. Why not just post the actual time obtained by this car? Incessant dogging of your new car is just too funny.

I have to agree with this statement.

[T Bone]

Footie, just to prove that you are actually a BMW M3 customer and not a paid Audi hack....when you take delivery of your M3, take a picture of it with a sign that says "TBone's property".

I have never seen anyone hate a car as much as you, specially one that you are obstensibly going to buy.

Thanks Mate.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Uhhh, wrong. The M3 is "that quick" on the Ring. 8:05 is a darn good time. Look at the things faster. Your post titles suck, period. Why not just post the actual time obtained by this car? Incessant dogging of your new car is just too funny.

to be honest with you sir i think numbers over 7:59 on the N'ring are a disappointment for this car.

@ OP: i would advise that you do not put your money in a car you are not happy about.

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Footie, just to prove that you are actually a BMW M3 customer and not a paid Audi hack....when you take delivery of your M3, take a picture of it with a sign that says "TBone's property".

I have never seen anyone hate a car as much as you, specially one that you are obstensibly going to buy.

Thanks Mate.

Yes! This is an amazing idea.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

to be honest with you sir i think numbers over 7:59 on the N'ring are a disappointment for this car.

We all wanted to see a sub 8 minute time for the M3, do realize that the "magic" 8 minute barrier is both a historical issue and a completely arbitrary one. 8:00 is 480 seconds, why is 500 seconds not the critical number?

[southlight]

While talking about the M3 being not that quick. Anybody interested in the Ring time of the Carrera S PDK?


Best regards, south

[footie]

Originally Posted by lucid

The power numbers alone don't mean anything. Elise kicks ass. It's the power/weight ratio. Come on Footie, you know this.

Regardless, that is an impressive lap time...

I have a Lotus and know just how amazing they are, but then again an Elise can't even compete with this time.

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Footie, just to prove that you are actually a BMW M3 customer and not a paid Audi hack....when you take delivery of your M3, take a picture of it with a sign that says "TBone's property".

I have never seen anyone hate a car as much as you, specially one that you are obstensibly going to buy.

Thanks Mate.

I promise you mate, I will do exactly that and hopefully with a little surprise as well.

I don't hate the M3, it's one hell of a machine. The only difference is I have driven many, many things which are much, much better, the thing is that very few of them come close to offering the same performance for the money and when they do they have other compromises that rule them out.

The thing is I see the M3 as one of a group of great drivers cars in this price bracket, not the only one.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by footie

I don't hate the M3, it's one hell of a machine. The only difference is I have driven many, many things which are much, much better, the thing is that very few of them come close to offering the same performance for the money and when they do they have other compromises that rule them out.

The thing is I see the M3 as one of a group of great drivers cars in this price bracket, not the only one.

Footie, what 4-seater RWD car is out there that exceeds the M3 in performance at the same price point with comparable build quality and warranty? I mean a real 4-seater, not 2+1/2, that you can drive to work everyday and on the track on the weekend?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by southlight

While talking about the M3 being not that quick. Anybody interested in the Ring time of the Carrera S PDK?

Devo beat you to it.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by swamp2

We all wanted to see a sub 8 minute time for the M3, do realize that the "magic" 8 minute barrier is both a historical issue and a completely arbitrary one. 8:00 is 480 seconds, why is 500 seconds not the critical number?

it's all psychological. the 8 minute barrier is what separates a fast car, from a less fast car

[BMW-videos.com]

very interesting.