[Guitarkid]

I'm a potential first time bmw owner looking at a 2011 335i x-drive with the 6 speed for my daily driver. I'm something of a car enthusiast and I've heard that the authentic bmw driving experience has to be in a rear wheel drive model to see what they mean about being the "ultimate driving machine". Is that true? I know about the various awd advantages and disadvantages of course, better traction from a standstill, increased weight, more complicated to fix and mod, etc. I live in New England and can't help wondering if I could get away with a rwd model on snow tires in the winter. I'd hate to pull the trigger on this car and then regret not getting a rwd model for the full experience

[Supermoon]

Where you live you'll appreciate AWD unless you have another daily.
Yes xDrive comes with many downsides driving experience/fun being one of them but it can be mitigated by installing xDelete and setting torque bias for your liking.

So far the cons of xDrive I think:
- HUGE front wheel gap! And if you lower enough to make it "look good" car will ride like shit from my experience.
- Stock suspension sucks! M-sport suspension doesn't even exist for xDrive. All e9x xDrive cars get shitty, bloaty, and weak normal suspension.
- Limited aftermarket suspension choice. Ohlins coilover kit for example is not available for xDrive cars.
- Extra labor for downpipe, waterpump/thermostat, turbocharger, swaybar job, etc because the tight space.
- Heavier front end affecting weight distribution.
- Slower/Numb steering feel. Harder to make U-turn. (Can be fixed by xDelete)
- Limited choice of wheels and tires. The front and rear rolling diameter has to match or in 1% difference.

[colorado.e9x]

I have a 330xi and I personally love awd as a daily driver. Where I live, the snow gets extremely moist and packs really tight which, under the right circumstances becomes ice. With snow tires I have barely lost traction at all. Definitely a plus. I remember seeing a mustang trying to go after a stop sign and he couldn't stop spinning his tires
Also you can still slide around in the snow if you really want to

During the spring and summer months you could say the rwd would be more enjoyable. In my humble opinion I don't think it takes away from the driving experience. I still really enjoy the drive.

You can use xdelete on the xdrive to turn it into a rwd however I just read a recent horror story on that one.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

You can use xdelete on the xdrive to turn it into a rwd however I just read a recent horror story on that one.

I don’t want to threadjack here, but can you link the post or share what you heard?

As for OP’s question: it’s a matter of what’s most important to you. Where I live, winters are shit and the snow can be terrible at times. Would RWD with good snow tires be fine for much of it? Sure. But with xDrive, I know that no matter how icy or packed the snow is at an intersection, I’ll be able to move quickly off the line without getting stuck.

I place a lot of value on this, but your situation may be different. IMO no reason for xDrive unless you live in a very snowy climate.

[rawdog573]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I don't want to threadjack here, but can you link the post or share what you heard?

As for OP's question: it's a matter of what's most important to you. Where I live, winters are shit and the snow can be terrible at times. Would RWD with good snow tires be fine for much of it? Sure. But with xDrive, I know that no matter how icy or packed the snow is at an intersection, I'll be able to move quickly off the line without getting stuck.

I place a lot of value on this, but your situation may be different. IMO no reason for xDrive unless you live in a very snowy climate.

I live in Missouri so whether various. I bought an x drive just because of the fact I knew I wanted all wheel drive. Sure rear wheel is fun and all but I think the handling of Xdrive is better. Who doesn't like taking curves running 120+ and feeling completely stable. No wheel spin when launching. If I had a rear wheel drive I would have already been through multiple sets of tires just because I know the car could do it. X drive I'm limited so I can smoke tires off every chance I get. Plus the extra traction when driving spiritedly in rain is great to. I never feel not safe driving my car aggressively is non aggressive conditions

[colorado.e9x]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I don't want to threadjack here, but can you link the post or share what you heard?

As for OP's question: it's a matter of what's most important to you. Where I live, winters are shit and the snow can be terrible at times. Would RWD with good snow tires be fine for much of it? Sure. But with xDrive, I know that no matter how icy or packed the snow is at an intersection, I'll be able to move quickly off the line without getting stuck.

I place a lot of value on this, but your situation may be different. IMO no reason for xDrive unless you live in a very snowy climate.

Its a few threads down from this actually

Do not get xDelete on your xDrive BMW!!! https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1637725

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

Its a few threads down from this actually

Do not get xDelete on your xDrive BMW!!! https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1637725

Should be noted that the rear diff problem (if it is the problem at all) isn't caused by xdelete.... Awd and rwd cars both have the same rear drivetrain, so the rear diff is completely capable of handling the full load on its own.

[wdb]

A lot of folks would say that RWD on full winter tires beats AWD on all seasons. Just a thought. My own thoughts on AWD vs. RWD are "own both!" That has allowed me to go with M Sport suspension and so on, to get that "ultimate" experience you're seeking. To be honest I think you have to fully commit in that regard to get the full experience.

On the other hand it's still a BMW, still considerably RWD biased. It'll drive better than a Camry! If it is to be your only car you may have to compromise ultimate driving enjoyment for practicality. I personally think BMW's nannies are overly intrusive, and that combined with the lack of a true rear LSD might make some winter situations difficult for RWD-only, even with winter tires.

I'm rambling. Good luck with your decision process!

[hassmaschine]

We had both rwd and xdrive - same engine, same tune, both 6mt. Jumping back and forth between the two, the RWD definitely drives better. The steering is tighter, the turn radius is sharper, the suspension is much more planted. The xdrive car felt like a dull knife in comparison.

Xdrive was fun in the snow. But you can drive just fine with snow tires and RWD - tires are the important part. Personally I wouldn't want to compromise on handling, power and fuel economy for the 1 week a year AWD might be useful.

[colorado.e9x]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Should be noted that the rear diff problem (if it is the problem at all) isn't caused by xdelete.... Awd and rwd cars both have the same rear drivetrain, so the rear diff is completely capable of handling the full load on its own.

Just read up on that. Never knew the awd was adaptive, I thought it was 60% to the rear and 40% to the front 24/7 until now

[Gamb1t]

Meh, just ask the owners of WRX, sti, Evo etc.... If AWD is any less fun! That said.....

RWD would give you the classic BMW driving experience. That's how the engineers intended it from the beginning. My rwd 330i works fine in winter. I live in PNW with mild winters. But safety trumps fun factor, therefore if your winter conditions dictate it then go for it.
AWD is fine and XI is a good car with rear wheel bias. The transfer case does add to the complexity. Look, late model BMWs are xdrives anyway. RWD non-M bimmers are getting rare.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

Just read up on that. Never knew the awd was adaptive, I thought it was 60% to the rear and 40% to the front 24/7 until now

That was the previous E46 version. The E9x and later has a stepper motor that adjusts the f/r split (it's a different transfer case).

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Guitarkid

I'm a potential first time bmw owner looking at a 2011 335i x-drive with the 6 speed for my daily driver. I'm something of a car enthusiast and I've heard that the authentic bmw driving experience has to be in a rear wheel drive model to see what they mean about being the "ultimate driving machine". Is that true? I know about the various awd advantages and disadvantages of course, better traction from a standstill, increased weight, more complicated to fix and mod, etc. I live in New England and can't help wondering if I could get away with a rwd model on snow tires in the winter. I'd hate to pull the trigger on this car and then regret not getting a rwd model for the full experience

The AWD vs RWD thing has been argued all over the place. I will say that RWD with snows is COMPARABLE to AWD with no-seasons. Couldn't get up my son's drive last winter in my 335d with snows, whereas my wife's 328xd would have churned up it. In general, RWD/snows is sufficient for MOST winter conditions and driving.

All the people decrying AWD/xDrive are mostly just repeating what one or two people have said. While there is a difference, it's only really a concern if you're a track rat. An xDrive BMW is still a BMW, and drives like one. Remember, the weight difference is only 150 lbs - so it's like having a passenger all the time. Canyon carving is still canyon carving, no matter which drive system.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Where you live you'll appreciate AWD unless you have another daily.
Yes xDrive comes with many downsides driving experience/fun being one of them but it can be mitigated by installing xDelete and setting torque bias for your liking.

So far the cons of xDrive I think:
- HUGE front wheel gap! And if you lower enough to make it "look good" car will ride like shit from my experience.
- Stock suspension sucks! M-sport suspension doesn't even exist for xDrive. All e9x xDrive cars get shitty, bloaty, and weak normal suspension.
- Limited aftermarket suspension choice. Ohlins coilover kit for example is not available for xDrive cars.
- Extra labor for downpipe, waterpump/thermostat, turbocharger, swaybar job, etc because the tight space.
- Heavier front end affecting weight distribution.
- Slower/Numb steering feel. Harder to make U-turn. (Can be fixed by xDelete)
- Limited choice of wheels and tires. The front and rear rolling diameter has to match or in 1% difference.

I completely agree with you.

The biggest pro is winter driving. The AWD in canada makes the car incredibly capable. I took the car once on a snowy twisty gravel road and with my blizzaks i was driving with alot of confidence. Even though i was surrounded by ditches.

[roadkillrob]

I have both an xi and and i and certainly the xi doesn't drive as well as the i, but it is still a great driving car and in the winter is truly excellent on snows, so just depends what you want or need. As for pure driving experience the non xi is better, but certainly the xi is better than most other cars for the driving experience and in the snow it is great to have.

[krhodes1]

I have a RWD e91, and I drove it in Maine winters for the first two years I had it with snow tires on it with zero issues other than I had to snowblow the driveway before I could leave in it. I do find a fair bit of difference in how the cars drive between RWD and AWD. The AWD isn't bad by any means, but the RWD is certainly better. I also had a RWD stick M235i that I drove in Maine winters without an issue.

For a *car* that is only used on pavement, I find AWD to be a complete waste of money unless you live somewhere with really extreme weather - and in that case, the lack of ground clearance is going to be a huge issue, so you probably don't want a car in the first place. In exchange for a little better traction, you add a lot of cost - the car costs more upfront (usually, RWD stickshift e91s being an exception to the rule generally), it uses more gas, tires can be an issue (not sure if this is the case with the BMW system) and Dog-forbid you ever have to fix any of it.

Snow tires help you STOP as well as go, and I prefer to have more stopping ability than going ability - keeps one out of trouble. Snow tires have an upfront cost of a second set of wheels, but assuming you keep the car long enough to wear out two sets of tires the tires themselves are effectively free. And they let you run better, more performance oriented tires in the summer. Of course, AWD + snow tires is the ultimate in winter grip, but to me it's just unnecessary on a car. I do however do exactly that with my Land Rover Disco - if the weather is bad enough that my RWD BMW on snows won't do the job, it is because the snow is too deep. The Land Rover does NOT have that issue until the snow is coming over the front of the hood.

Of course I mostly solved the issue by moving 4/5th time to Florida, so I haven't actually put snows on my BMW in years now. It still lives in Maine, but I only drive it in the summer. When I am occasionally in Maine in winter, I just drive the Rover.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

I do however do exactly that with my Land Rover Disco - if the weather is bad enough that my RWD BMW on snows won't do the job, it is because the snow is too deep.

Same with my car vs. my Jeep. I actually prefer the RWD E90 with snow tires over the 4x4 Jeep because the BMW handles better. The Jeep is light in the rear and isn't supposed to be in 4x4 on dry pavement, so for partially cleared roads it can be kind of a pain. I've driven the car with snows in 4" of snow without issue, but with deep snow the Jeep wins only because of ground clearance.

[dakine_surf]

When searching for my wagon, I looked high and low to find one the way I wanted. I drove both and immediately knew I would be unhappy with x-drive from a dynamics perspective. I also knew I would be upgrading the suspension and doing the M3 suspension upgrades down the line, so that also ruled out an AWD car.

I don't have snow where I live but I go to Mammoth Mountain just about every weekend during the ski season so AWD would have been nice for a little peace of mind. In the end it comes down to my butt dyno/feeling... I've had 22 BMW's over the last 25 years, all of them except 1 (e53 X5) were RWD... It's just kinda how I like my Bavarians. I've had a couple of AWD cars too (Subi, Mitsubishi) but BMW always had a particular feel, a heaviness to the steering, a connected feeling that I just didn't feel in the x-drive.

[Gamb1t]

If it snowed so bad that an RWD with snowies cannot deal with, I'd just stay home. I am more worried about the other idiots with all season AWD vehicles sliding towards me.

And if I REALLY have to, I will take the e84 X1 with winter tires. This tall wagon was super capable when we got hit with a sudden blizzard coming down from Whistler a couple of years ago.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

I have a RWD e91, and I drove it in Maine winters for the first two years I had it with snow tires on it with zero issues other than I had to snowblow the driveway before I could leave in it. I do find a fair bit of difference in how the cars drive between RWD and AWD. The AWD isn't bad by any means, but the RWD is certainly better. I also had a RWD stick M235i that I drove in Maine winters without an issue.

For a *car* that is only used on pavement, I find AWD to be a complete waste of money unless you live somewhere with really extreme weather - and in that case, the lack of ground clearance is going to be a huge issue, so you probably don't want a car in the first place. In exchange for a little better traction, you add a lot of cost - the car costs more upfront (usually, RWD stickshift e91s being an exception to the rule generally), it uses more gas, tires can be an issue (not sure if this is the case with the BMW system) and Dog-forbid you ever have to fix any of it.

Snow tires help you STOP as well as go, and I prefer to have more stopping ability than going ability - keeps one out of trouble. Snow tires have an upfront cost of a second set of wheels, but assuming you keep the car long enough to wear out two sets of tires the tires themselves are effectively free. And they let you run better, more performance oriented tires in the summer. Of course, AWD + snow tires is the ultimate in winter grip, but to me it's just unnecessary on a car. I do however do exactly that with my Land Rover Disco - if the weather is bad enough that my RWD BMW on snows won't do the job, it is because the snow is too deep. The Land Rover does NOT have that issue until the snow is coming over the front of the hood.

Of course I mostly solved the issue by moving 4/5th time to Florida, so I haven't actually put snows on my BMW in years now. It still lives in Maine, but I only drive it in the summer. When I am occasionally in Maine in winter, I just drive the Rover.

Great stuff and I 99% agree. The one disagreement is that AWD is a waste on a car. If the AWD is designed with performance as the objective it can add unique and enjoyable qualities (says the ex-STi owner).