[luke1990]

Hi,

I was planning on buying 440i GC xdrive and doing the doing the pure treatment getting to 530whp+. Now I found a good deal on used 540i xdrive for ~20% more. I like to drive, but I also like the comfort - hence why I am interested in the 5.

Question I have - is it worth to step up to 5 for that money? You can assume both cars have almost top equipment, both used ~40000km.

And how are the driving dynamics of 5 vs 4? 540i will have the adaptive drive option fitted.

Thanks a ton!

[SteveinArizona]

You would have to give us the specs of each before we could give any meaningful advice. year, mileage, condition, options and packages, etc.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

You would have to give us the specs of each before we could give any meaningful advice. year, mileage, condition, options and packages, etc.

Sure - here are the full packages
100% of cost: 440ix GC M sport, 2015, 56000km, all options (incl. adaptive suspension, m sport breaks, variable sports steering, merino leather + has MPSSK) aside from lane change warning, parking asistant, glass roof and heated steering wheel - issue is it was in small accident, ~5000 EUR damage (replaced front left light, front bumper, left front piece)
120% of cost: 440ix GC M sport, 2018, 13000km, 2017 facelift (so better suspension, wider track), all options (incl. adaptive suspension, m sport breaks, variable sports steering, merino leather) aside from heated steering wheel, seat heating in back, ind instrument cluster covered in leather
130% of cost: 540ix M sport 2017, 43000km, all options (incl. adaptive drive, m breaks, nappa leather, bower & wilkens, all driver assists, comfort seats) aside from soft close, sun blinds, seat ventilation, m seat belts, instrument cluster in leather, 4 zone climate, ambient air, massage, ceramic & galvant treatment & rear entertainment

I will put pure turbos (& bunch of other upgrades in) & better brakes on all cars. For me - I'd rather get the 5, but want to drive it hard around twisties at times - so want to know if its much worse than 4. Curb weight is 1685kg for 4GC and 1765kg for 5 - not sure how substantial it is. Overall I'm looking for a daily which I can take to drive hard twice a week. What would you recommend?

Also - how does nappa leather compare to the merino leather?

[SteveinArizona]

I had a 3 series and now drive a 5 series so I do have experience with the different sizes. Personally, I prefer a smaller, more tossable vehicle. So all things being approximately equal, I would opt for the 4 series.

I went for the five series because at the time of my purchase, I couldn't get the options I wanted (such as Nappa or Merino leather; I really disliked the Dakota).

IMHO there is a world of difference between Sensatech/Dakota on one hand and Nappa/Merino on the other hand. I don't see a meaningful difference between Nappa and Merino and would gladly go for either (I have the Nappa but would have opted for Merino but I couldn't wait the additional time for an individual leather order).

The 2018 will have significant OEM warranty remaining. That is a very good feature. On the other hand, once you upgrade the turbos, etc. you might invalidate the warranty so that might not be such a big issue.

All things considered, if I were you I would opt for the 2018 440ix. It has much less miles and Merino leather. The new 5 series (I have an 18) is an improvement but it will not handle like the four series. Also,

1. Do you want/need four doors. If so, the 4 series is a no starter.
2. do you carry a lot of back seat passengers and/or small children that would make a coupe difficult?
3. 2017 is the first year for the G30 5 series. Consumer Reports generally recommends not purchasing a car in the first year of a new model as it generally has reliablity issues. For a 2017 5 series, CR gives it the worst reliability rating; for a 2018 4 series, it gives it its best reliability rating.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I had a 3 series and now drive a 5 series so I do have experience with the different sizes. Personally, I prefer a smaller, more tossable vehicle. So all things being approximately equal, I would opt for the 4 series.

I went for the five series because at the time of my purchase, I couldn't get the options I wanted (such as Nappa or Merino leather; I really disliked the Dakota).

IMHO there is a world of difference between Sensatech/Dakota on one hand and Nappa/Merino on the other hand. I don't see a meaningful difference between Nappa and Merino and would gladly go for either (I have the Nappa but would have opted for Merino but I couldn't wait the additional time for an individual leather order).

The 2018 will have significant OEM warranty remaining. That is a very good feature. On the other hand, once you upgrade the turbos, etc. you might invalidate the warranty so that might not be such a big issue.

All things considered, if I were you I would opt for the 2018 440ix. It has much less miles and Merino leather. The new 5 series (I have an 18) is an improvement but it will not handle like the four series. Also,

1. Do you want/need four doors. If so, the 4 series is a no starter.
2. do you carry a lot of back seat passengers and/or small children that would make a coupe difficult?
3. 2017 is the first year for the G30 5 series. Consumer Reports generally recommends not purchasing a car in the first year of a new model as it generally has reliablity issues. For a 2017 5 series, CR gives it the worst reliability rating; for a 2018 4 series, it gives it its best reliability rating.

Thanks for an answer! Forgot to mention that I'm thinking about GC - so yeah its 4 doors each car (5 on GC - but thats not meaningful).

I'm buying it from BMW - 2014 440 GC will have just 1 year warranty (not a premium selection), 2018 440 GC and 2017 540 will each have 2 years warranty. But you're right after turbos - the warranty will not cover the drivetrain - only other bits.

I hear you on the drivability; how about the comfort and interior? To me those are worlds appart. I now own 2014 435d and its not bad - just not the best :/. Also the ride is quite bumpy even with adaptive suspension on 19"s.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by luke1990

Thanks for an answer! Forgot to mention that I'm thinking about GC - so yeah its 4 doors each car (5 on GC - but thats not meaningful).

I'm buying it from BMW - 2014 440 GC will have just 1 year warranty (not a premium selection), 2018 440 GC and 2017 540 will each have 2 years warranty. But you're right after turbos - the warranty will not cover the drivetrain - only other bits.

I hear you on the drivability; how about the comfort and interior? To me those are worlds appart. I now own 2014 435d and its not bad - just not the best :/. Also the ride is quite bumpy even with adaptive suspension on 19"s.

There is more room in the 5 series. The suspension will be governed to a large extent by the tire size. The larger the tires, the stiffer the BMW suspension tends to be.

While the 5 series is generally more luxurious, the upholstery is a major part of that and you indicate that the 4 series will have Merino leather which is equal to if not better than the Nappa in the 5 series.

The other big consideration is seating. I should have mentioned that previously. There is a wide disparity in opinions on BMW seats and the ones you get in Europe are not identical to the ones we get here in the US. If you can, I suggest going to a dealership and sitting in cars with different seats. Many of us, me included, consider the multi-contour seats the best. I would especially want to make sure that you have a lumbar adjustment.

If the 2018 4 GC has the multicontour seats, then it should be just about equal to the 5 series in terms of interior quality. As to comfort, you would have to drive them both to decide.

I would still opt for the 2018 4 series GC but that is me. Don't get me wrong, I love my 530e and have no problems with it but if I could have gotten an equivalent 3 series at the time, I would have preferred that. It is not just smaller, it is also lower.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

There is more room in the 5 series. The suspension will be governed to a large extent by the tire size. The larger the tires, the stiffer the BMW suspension tends to be.

While the 5 series is generally more luxurious, the upholstery is a major part of that and you indicate that the 4 series will have Merino leather which is equal to if not better than the Nappa in the 5 series.

The other big consideration is seating. I should have mentioned that previously. There is a wide disparity in opinions on BMW seats and the ones you get in Europe are not identical to the ones we get here in the US. If you can, I suggest going to a dealership and sitting in cars with different seats. Many of us, me included, consider the multi-contour seats the best. I would especially want to make sure that you have a lumbar adjustment.

If the 2018 4 GC has the multicontour seats, then it should be just about equal to the 5 series in terms of interior quality. As to comfort, you would have to drive them both to decide.

I would still opt for the 2018 4 series GC but that is me. Don't get me wrong, I love my 530e and have no problems with it but if I could have gotten an equivalent 3 series at the time, I would have preferred that. It is not just smaller, it is also lower.

@tire size: I'd have 19s on both 225/40+255/35 on 4, 245/35+275/30 on 5 - so roughly the same. 5 will come w. 20s, but Ill swap that for 19s I think. Honestly the 4 is quite punishing on those 19s - even though I got rid of runflats & have adaptive now on 435d. With adaptive ride I think the comfort must be better on 5
@luxury: Yes material will be the same. However, the look and feel of 5 is simply much better than 4. Plus the seats -> you get simple sports seats in 4 so even though they have merino leather, they are much less comfy. the 435d again - its not that anything hurts, but I tend to move a lot in them to get comfy after a while. Hence why I want to try 5. The 5 I have selected has the super adjustable seats (probably those you're thinking of)
@ride: yes I think 4 will be sharper. Its I think even lower than 3, wider track - especially the facelift. Question is by how much. 5 is not as low - not sure about width of track, but this one has the adaptive drive which has both DDC & Anti-roll-stabilization. Which should help it stay flat in corners

I will for sure try to go monday to try to drive the 5 and see

[530iDriver]

I personally prefer the cabin appointments and luxurious materials of the G30 over any previous generation 3er F30, F32, etc.

While I consider the F32 Gran Coupe the best looking 3er of the F3X era, the interior of that car is simply dated and replete with cheap and questionable plastics and this includes the LCI models.

Do the center console test between the G30 and F32. No contest!

And the F32 is not exactly a small/tossable car. The last 3er that was truly tossable was the E90.

F3X was a low point in 3 Series. Avoid. I far prefer the G30. It is a superior car in every level imaginable.

I owned an E90 and as much as I loved and appreciate that car, would never go back to a 3er, G20 included which I recently drove and came away appreciating my G30 even more.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by luke1990

@tire size: I'd have 19s on both 225/40+255/35 on 4, 245/35+275/30 on 5 - so roughly the same. 5 will come w. 20s, but Ill swap that for 19s I think. Honestly the 4 is quite punishing on those 19s - even though I got rid of runflats & have adaptive now on 435d. With adaptive ride I think the comfort must be better on 5
@luxury: Yes material will be the same. However, the look and feel of 5 is simply much better than 4. Plus the seats -> you get simple sports seats in 4 so even though they have merino leather, they are much less comfy. the 435d again - its not that anything hurts, but I tend to move a lot in them to get comfy after a while. Hence why I want to try 5. The 5 I have selected has the super adjustable seats (probably those you're thinking of)
@ride: yes I think 4 will be sharper. Its I think even lower than 3, wider track - especially the facelift. Question is by how much. 5 is not as low - not sure about width of track, but this one has the adaptive drive which has both DDC & Anti-roll-stabilization. Which should help it stay flat in corners

I will for sure try to go monday to try to drive the 5 and see

Reading between the lines, I think you want the 5 series. Go with your heart or you will regret it. The fact that I, or any other member of this forum, might prefer one or the other is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what you prefer.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

I personally prefer the cabin appointments and luxurious materials of the G30 over any previous generation 3er F30, F32, etc.

While I consider the F32 Gran Coupe the best looking 3er of the F3X era, the interior of that car is simply dated and replete with cheap and questionable plastics and this includes the LCI models.

Do the center console test between the G30 and F32. No contest!

And the F32 is not exactly a small/tossable car. The last 3er that was truly tossable was the E90.

F3X was a low point in 3 Series. Avoid. I far prefer the G30. It is a superior car in every level imaginable.

I owned an E90 and as much as I loved and appreciate that car, would never go back to a 3er, G20 included which I recently drove and came away appreciating my G30 even more.

😃 the people owning 4s would crucify you for calling it a 3 . But in essence you're right. F36 (the gran coupe models) are even bigger than F32.

That being said I did read few articles praising the F36 after the facelift for the driving dynamics. So it's that and 80kg less vs the more posh interior and bigger car. Plus better value longer - having configured each car as a new model, the 540i is 56% down over new car with better warranty, vs 54% of the 440i from 2016 and 44% of the one from 2018.

I just hope the 5 won't feel as too big 😃. I'll go test them tomorrow or day after and see.
Btw - why did you not like G20? To me it's more noble and should be very close in interior quality to G30 no?

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by luke1990

😃 the people owning 4s would crucify you for calling it a 3 . But in essence you're right. F36 (the gran coupe models) are even bigger than F32.

That being said I did read few articles praising the F36 after the facelift for the driving dynamics. So it's that and 80kg less vs the more posh interior and bigger car. Plus better value longer - having configured each car as a new model, the 540i is 56% down over new car with better warranty, vs 54% of the 440i from 2016 and 44% of the one from 2018.

I just hope the 5 won't feel as too big 😃. I'll go test them tomorrow or day after and see.
Btw - why did you not like G20? To me it's more noble and should be very close in interior quality to G30 no?

G20 330i was nice overall. Does
Remind me a bit of my old E90. Seats are hard and narrow. The sports seats in my G30 are at another level of comfort. Didn't care for IDrive 7 or reverse gauges. Interior material quality above F30 but not in G30 territory. Stereo sound quality was fantastic. Engine and transmission top notch.

Steering was a huge disappointment. Let me just say the steering in my G30 530i is much better, more precise and greater feedback.

G20 is not that much more smaller than G30 to be honest.

If you are after luxury, comfort, passenger room and cabin appointments, you will be much happier in G30. If you will put carry rear passengers every now and then, the F36 will probably work for you better. G30 make no mistake is a big car. After all, it is a 'smaller' 7 Series G11/G12 in which is largely based. Prior generations of the 5er were essentially longer and wider 3 series based cars. Not anymore.

I like the looks of the F36 but don't care for the interior design, material quality and compromised headroom, specially in rear.

It all depends on what you want and expect the car to do for you.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Reading between the lines, I think you want the 5 series. Go with your heart or you will regret it. The fact that I, or any other member of this forum, might prefer one or the other is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what you prefer.

A bit yes (you know it feels much better doing a decision that other people approve of &#128515, but wanted to really compare the two

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

G20 330i was nice overall. Does
Remind me a bit of my old E90. Seats are hard and narrow. The sports seats in my G30 are at another level of comfort. Didn't care for IDrive 7 or reverse gauges. Interior material quality above F30 but not in G30 territory. Stereo sound quality was fantastic. Engine and transmission top notch.

Steering was a huge disappointment. Let me just say the steering in my G30 530i is much better, more precise and greater feedback.

G20 is not that much more smaller than G30 to be honest.

If you are after luxury, comfort, passenger room and cabin appointments, you will be much happier in G30. If you will put carry rear passengers every now and then, the F36 will probably work for you better. G30 make no mistake is a big car. After all, it is a 'smaller' 7 Series G11/G12 in which is largely based. Prior generations of the 5er were essentially longer and wider 3 series based cars. Not anymore.

I like the looks of the F36 but don't care for the interior design, material quality and compromised headroom, specially in rear.

It all depends on what you want and expect the car to do for you.

I see. What kind of interior did the g20 you tried have? I assume not merino leather .

Btw why do you say that for rear passengers the F36 is better? I think space wise and comfort wise 5 should be much better no?

[luke1990]

Btw - am I right in assuming that the M-performance breaks in 440i and 540i are different? Or are they the same part number and interchangable? Reason being - I have upgraded breaks on my 435d - which I wanted to swap onto the new 440. Not sure I can do that to 540 . Thanks!

[quackbury]

We have both a 428i xDrive GC and a 540i xDrive in the garage. And we had a RWD 340i 6MT with the MPPSK. So i have some very strong opinions on the subject.

If you value handling, the xDrive F3X will be disappointing. Like the F1X 5 Series, adding xDrive removes the 704 MSport suspension. We build our 340 (and our last F10 535) as RWD just to get the better suspension. The G30 with the 704 suspension is just sublime. Drive one on the race track. You will be amazed at what a big saloon can do.

Now the rub in your situation is that you are not looking at a 540 with the 704. The adaptive suspension replaces the sublime 704 with a bunch of fiddly bits. They may be useful in the cratered streets of New York or Chicago, but I cannot imagine needing them in the UK or EU.

There is a HUGE difference between the fit, finish and noise dampening between our 428 & 340 vs. the 540. The G30 540 is MUCH more refined (as is the new G20 3 Series). Every time I drive our 428 or 340, I long for the relative luxury of the G30.

The MSport brakes (and please stop calling them "breaks"!) are significantly better in the G30, particularly in terms of pedal feel. Those on the F3X are "okay, but nothing special." The G30's are lovely.

Yes the 4 GC has 4 doors. But have you spent much / any time getting into or out of the rear seat, or rode any distance back there? The 4 GC is lovely, but the rear seat is a miserable place to spend any time. Maybe not as bad as my 911 or prior E93 M3 convertible, but your future passengers are really hoping you get the G30.

Just not THAT G30. It's loaded up with a bunch of rubbish you really don't need, like the adaptive drive and the rear entertainment, and it lacks the one thing you really want (but don't yet know that you want): the 704 suspension.

Find yourself another 2017 or 2018 540 with the 704 suspension, and fewer miles in exchange for less bloatware. Depending on where in Europe you are located, I'd even consider going RWD instead of xDrive.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by quackbury

We have both a 428i xDrive GC and a 540i xDrive in the garage. And we had a RWD 340i 6MT with the MPPSK. So i have some very strong opinions on the subject.

If you value handling, the xDrive F3X will be disappointing. Like the F1X 5 Series, adding xDrive removes the 704 MSport suspension. We build our 340 (and our last F10 535) as RWD just to get the better suspension. The G30 with the 704 suspension is just sublime. Drive one on the race track. You will be amazed at what a big saloon can do.

Now the rub in your situation is that you are not looking at a 540 with the 704. The adaptive suspension replaces the sublime 704 with a bunch of fiddly bits. They may be useful in the cratered streets of New York or Chicago, but I cannot imagine needing them in the UK or EU.

There is a HUGE difference between the fit, finish and noise dampening between our 428 & 340 vs. the 540. The G30 540 is MUCH more refined (as is the new G20 3 Series). Every time I drive our 428 or 340, I long for the relative luxury of the G30.

The MSport brakes (and please stop calling them "breaks"!) are significantly better in the G30, particularly in terms of pedal feel. Those on the F3X are "okay, but nothing special." The G30's are lovely.

Yes the 4 GC has 4 doors. But have you spent much / any time getting into or out of the rear seat, or rode any distance back there? The 4 GC is lovely, but the rear seat is a miserable place to spend any time. Maybe not as bad as my 911 or prior E93 M3 convertible, but your future passengers are really hoping you get the G30.

Just not THAT G30. It's loaded up with a bunch of rubbish you really don't need, like the adaptive drive and the rear entertainment, and it lacks the one thing you really want (but don't yet know that you want): the 704 suspension.

Find yourself another 2017 or 2018 540 with the 704 suspension, and fewer miles in exchange for less bloatware. Depending on where in Europe you are located, I'd even consider going RWD instead of xDrive.

Thanks for in-depth answer!

The issue is I'm looking at used cars and this one has what I want in terms of equipment (doesn't have the rear seat entertainment). I probably would not go for m-sport suspension since I really don't like how my 435d xdrive with adaptive m suspension drives. I want it to be comfortable. And I'm form
Eastern Europe so 😃 our streets are really bad at times. You do need it I feel. Adaptive suspension i agree is probably not worth it - but the adaptive drive with DDC and Anti-roll-stabilization should do the trick I feel. And I do want xdrive - this car will go up on power a lot and I will drive it in winter so

On the brakes (apologies ) - my question is if it's the same part with f3x when both have M Performance because I wanted to swap in my custom ones that I have on f36 (rotors and pads - fits in stock calipers)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by luke1990

Thanks for in-depth answer!

The issue is I'm looking at used cars and this one has what I want in terms of equipment (doesn't have the rear seat entertainment). I probably would not go for m-sport suspension since I really don't like how my 435d xdrive with adaptive m suspension drives. I want it to be comfortable. And I'm form
Eastern Europe so 😃 our streets are really bad at times. You do need it I feel. Adaptive suspension i agree is probably not worth it - but the adaptive drive with DDC and Anti-roll-stabilization should do the trick I feel. And I do want xdrive - this car will go up on power a lot and I will drive it in winter so

There will obviously be mixed opinion among users on optional equipment.

My own experience on options, they often make the car, can make ownership much more enjoyable.

Regarding the suspensions, many will prefer the passive M-sport suspension, both for constant feel and the mechanical simplicity. I've tried a G30 on M-sport (704) suspension, was pretty good, very much like the suspension on my E39. But as road quality deteriorated, so did the ride. Getting back into my F11 with AD, confirmed that AD can make so much sense for use on poor to average roads, with no real compromise when you want to press on.

As I've previously said, test drive and make sure you also try it in Sport mode, with 'chassis' checked.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by luke1990

I see. What kind of interior did the g20 you tried have? I assume not merino leather .

Btw why do you say that for rear passengers the F36 is better? I think space wise and comfort wise 5 should be much better no?

Apologies if I wasn't clear on my previous post. What I was trying to convey to you is if you don't carry rear seat passengers all that often, then the 440 will work out for you then. But as other posters have so eloquently stated, the G30 is just the better car all around. Good luck with your decision!.

[luke1990]

Thanks all for answer!

Last 2 quick quesitons:

1. Do you know what the weight difference will be between well-speced F36 440ix and G30 540ix? I thought 540ix is heavier clearly, but some people said they are the same, or that it is even lighter. In EU, bmw states 1,765kg (3,890lbs) - but seen anywhere from 1,730-1,860kg. What would be best to know is what well-speced 540ix (e.g. the multi-contour seats, adaptive drive, bower&wilkens stereo etc.) will be. I assume curb weight is more of a basic config. So like 1,800kg (3,970lbs)? Vs. 440ix F36 LCI seems 1,760kg (3,880lbs) - which is the same, but I used to see 1,680kg. Plus I assume the additional equipment wont be as heavy (can't spec special seats etc.). Anybody knows? Important for me for straight line
2. Any info on those brakes? Are they interchangable between 440ix and 540ix?

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by luke1990

Thanks all for answer!

Last 2 quick quesitons:

1. Do you know what the weight difference will be between well-speced F36 440ix and G30 540ix? I thought 540ix is heavier clearly, but some people said they are the same, or that it is even lighter. In EU, bmw states 1,765kg (3,890lbs) - but seen anywhere from 1,730-1,860kg. What would be best to know is what well-speced 540ix (e.g. the multi-contour seats, adaptive drive, bower&wilkens stereo etc.) will be. I assume curb weight is more of a basic config. So like 1,800kg (3,970lbs)? Vs. 440ix F36 LCI seems 1,760kg (3,880lbs) - which is the same, but I used to see 1,680kg. Plus I assume the additional equipment wont be as heavy (can't spec special seats etc.). Anybody knows? Important for me for straight line
2. Any info on those brakes? Are they interchangable between 440ix and 540ix?

I am not sure about the brakes. As to the weight, I think the five will weigh a tad more but only about 100 pounds more. While the five series is bigger, there is a lot more use of aluminum which helps offset the greater size.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by luke1990

Thanks all for answer!

Last 2 quick quesitons:

1. Do you know what the weight difference will be between well-speced F36 440ix and G30 540ix? I thought 540ix is heavier clearly, but some people said they are the same, or that it is even lighter. In EU, bmw states 1,765kg (3,890lbs) - but seen anywhere from 1,730-1,860kg. What would be best to know is what well-speced 540ix (e.g. the multi-contour seats, adaptive drive, bower&wilkens stereo etc.) will be. I assume curb weight is more of a basic config. So like 1,800kg (3,970lbs)? Vs. 440ix F36 LCI seems 1,760kg (3,880lbs) - which is the same, but I used to see 1,680kg. Plus I assume the additional equipment wont be as heavy (can't spec special seats etc.). Anybody knows? Important for me for straight line
2. Any info on those brakes? Are they interchangable between 440ix and 540ix?

According to BMW, base specs' for both examples.

540i xDrive: Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU kg 1660/1735

440i GC xDrive: Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU kg 1685/1760

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

According to BMW, base specs' for both examples.

540i xDrive: Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU kg 1660/1735

440i GC xDrive: Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU kg 1685/1760

Looks like G30 is a bit lighter!