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      10-14-2008, 03:40 PM   #1
jhbodle
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Do UK 335i's not suffer from the v29.2 lag?

My 335i is going in for some warranty work next Monday which I know will need the progman software to be updated.

The USA part of E90Post is up in arms about the latest software versions, claiming it introduces turbo lag and poor performance, but here in the UK forum no one seems to be mentioning it.

Is this because it's not an issue in the UK? Has anyone got the latest software version on their 335i and is actually happy?
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      10-14-2008, 03:43 PM   #2
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what is progman? you mean programe?
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      10-14-2008, 03:53 PM   #3
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Progman software is the name given to the software in the ECU. Sometimes, some of the niggles are caused by bugs in the car's software and "re-flashing" the software with the most up to date version is done in the hope of fixing it (with your re-map, Carlos, flashing the software is a dirty word )

There seems to be a lot of versions of the software about and the Progman version referred to in the OP post is alleged to dis-improve the car.
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      10-14-2008, 03:57 PM   #4
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Here's the thread that has got me worried...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781
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      10-14-2008, 04:02 PM   #5
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cheers Alan.

I cant believe bmw would make the car less driveable due to an update. Those yanks are being paranoid surely.
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      10-14-2008, 04:03 PM   #6
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cheers Alan.

I cant believe bmw would make the car less driveable due to an update. Those yanks are being paranoid surely.
believe it limey... it's legitimate
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      10-14-2008, 04:11 PM   #7
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believe it limey... it's legitimate
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      10-14-2008, 05:48 PM   #8
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Exclamation

The V29.2 Progman update was designed to minimise, or at best eradicate, the rattling wastegate issue that was being experienced by quite a few 335i drivers. Essentially, what was happening was that at low revs the engine management closes the wastegates - however some wastegates suffered from a deterioration in freedom of movement, and therefore didn't close 100%. Because they weren't sealing properly, they were rattling away when the throttle moved from an open to fully closed position.

The solution BMW came up with was to reprogram the ECU so that it would keep the wastegates open until 3000 revs, therefore reducing the rattling. However, the downside to this is that the engine suffers from increased turbo lag at low revs, and hence the dispute in the USA started with drivers complaining that the V29.2 reduced the drivability and performance of the 335i.

In practice, there is a noticeable increase in turbo lag with the V29.2 software (i had it on my car a few months ago, then changed back to V28.2 software because of this). BMW however realised that the software change did not fix the inherent wear problem with the wastegates, and so have recently issued an internal PUMA report to instruct dealers to replace the wastegates if there is sign of considerable rattling from the engine.

The good news is that BMW are now on V31.1 Progman software, and I can report that the drivability is the same as that when I had V28.x.

Bottom line - your car is going in for service and a software update - the software will be updated to V31.1, and you should have no problems or worries
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      10-15-2008, 12:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The V29.2 Progman update was designed to minimise, or at best eradicate, the rattling wastegate issue that was being experienced by quite a few 335i drivers. Essentially, what was happening was that at low revs the engine management closes the wastegates - however some wastegates suffered from a deterioration in freedom of movement, and therefore didn't close 100%. Because they weren't sealing properly, they were rattling away when the throttle moved from an open to fully closed position.

The solution BMW came up with was to reprogram the ECU so that it would keep the wastegates open until 3000 revs, therefore reducing the rattling. However, the downside to this is that the engine suffers from increased turbo lag at low revs, and hence the dispute in the USA started with drivers complaining that the V29.2 reduced the drivability and performance of the 335i.

In practice, there is a noticeable increase in turbo lag with the V29.2 software (i had it on my car a few months ago, then changed back to V28.2 software because of this). BMW however realised that the software change did not fix the inherent wear problem with the wastegates, and so have recently issued an internal PUMA report to instruct dealers to replace the wastegates if there is sign of considerable rattling from the engine.

The good news is that BMW are now on V31.1 Progman software, and I can report that the drivability is the same as that when I had V28.x.

Bottom line - your car is going in for service and a software update - the software will be updated to V31.1, and you should have no problems or worries
I sincerely hope that you are correct. Do you work for BMW? How were you able to have your DME reverted to a prior version?
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      10-15-2008, 03:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Bottom line - your car is going in for service and a software update - the software will be updated to V31.1, and you should have no problems or worries
My car goes in today to be updated from 30.0.2 to 31.1, I have MDS81 as it's a July 08 build. I'll soon know for myself what 31.1 does. The dealer was so willing to load the new software that I'm optimistic the new version will be an improvement - I'll report back.
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      10-15-2008, 03:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tek818 View Post
I sincerely hope that you are correct. Do you work for BMW? How were you able to have your DME reverted to a prior version?
BMW UK didn't update all their GT1 machines with the latest DME software, precisely because not all new software releases are bug free. For instance, V31.0 when it first came out couldn't code to some cars with certain FRM modules. It was very hit and miss. Within two or three days, there were PUMA updates to instruct delears that if a vehicle had xxx module or yyy module installed, then V31.0 was not to be loaded etc etc...

We originally did an update from V28.2 to V29.2 to see the effect it would have on my car, no one liked it, so we reverted back and waited until V31.1 became available
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      10-15-2008, 03:43 AM   #12
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Which DME do you have? 80 or 81?
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      10-15-2008, 03:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
Which DME do you have? 80 or 81?
MDS80. The same process/symptoms were displayed with MDS81 as well however.
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      10-15-2008, 09:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
BMW UK didn't update all their GT1 machines with the latest DME software, precisely because not all new software releases are bug free. For instance, V31.0 when it first came out couldn't code to some cars with certain FRM modules. It was very hit and miss. Within two or three days, there were PUMA updates to instruct delears that if a vehicle had xxx module or yyy module installed, then V31.0 was not to be loaded etc etc...

We originally did an update from V28.2 to V29.2 to see the effect it would have on my car, no one liked it, so we reverted back and waited until V31.1 became available

How can you tell which version softwear you have load on you ECU?
I have a march 2007 335i which has had turobs replaced due to actuators problems I belive software update was done first to see if the problem could be fixed, they had the car for over a week.
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      10-15-2008, 09:08 AM   #15
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Failure.....

When I got to the garage they wanted to diagnose etc. They can only update if there's a problem. Had I been reading forums....... They road tested the car, said it was fine. They are now going to research the problem via their own internal forum. I asked them to get a statement from BMW as to whether 1s to 1.5s of lag at low revs in 3r / 4th gear is acceptable, especially as when the engine is cold lag is less than 0.5s.

The strange thing is that driving home the lag characteristic is now different, it's more linear, it is still there but somehow the curve has changed so it's less noticeable. I wonder if they reset the throttle adaptation. How do you do this on the E9x? I knew how to do it on my E4x.
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      10-15-2008, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300zxtt View Post
How can you tell which version softwear you have load on you ECU?
I have a march 2007 335i which has had turobs replaced due to actuators problems I belive software update was done first to see if the problem could be fixed, they had the car for over a week.
You can't tell which version of the ECU software your car has without hooking it up to a GT1 machine. When did your car get serviced?
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      10-15-2008, 10:19 AM   #17
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If the dealer didn't keep your car overnight then they definitely haven't updated the software. However what they might have done is reset both the engine and gearbox adaptations via the GT1 machine. It is no longer possible to reset the adaptations yourself using the throttle pedal as we used to do on E46s. People who say otherwise are unfortunately misguided!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
Failure.....

When I got to the garage they wanted to diagnose etc. They can only update if there's a problem. Had I been reading forums....... They road tested the car, said it was fine. They are now going to research the problem via their own internal forum. I asked them to get a statement from BMW as to whether 1s to 1.5s of lag at low revs in 3r / 4th gear is acceptable, especially as when the engine is cold lag is less than 0.5s.

The strange thing is that driving home the lag characteristic is now different, it's more linear, it is still there but somehow the curve has changed so it's less noticeable. I wonder if they reset the throttle adaptation. How do you do this on the E9x? I knew how to do it on my E4x.
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      10-15-2008, 10:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
If the dealer didn't keep your car overnight then they definitely haven't updated the software. However what they might have done is reset both the engine and gearbox adaptations via the GT1 machine. It is no longer possible to reset the adaptations yourself using the throttle pedal as we used to do on E46s. People who say otherwise are unfortunately misguided!
The lag is quite different now. Before the boost came in with a rush after 1s to 1.5s, now there's a linear build-up. It makes the lag a lot less obvious although it is there, it still takes 1s to 1.5 s to reach max boost. I guess this could be altered throttle adaptation.
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      10-15-2008, 11:03 AM   #19
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The reset would certainly have helped.
The new software does reduce the effect of turbo lag. It isn't instantaneous response, but it is much better and now far smoother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
The lag is quite different now. Before the boost came in with a rush after 1s to 1.5s, now there's a linear build-up. It makes the lag a lot less obvious although it is there, it still takes 1s to 1.5 s to reach max boost. I guess this could be altered throttle adaptation.
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      10-15-2008, 11:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The reset would certainly have helped.
The new software does reduce the effect of turbo lag. It isn't instantaneous response, but it is much better and now far smoother.
Was the fix definitely in 31.1? I have 30.0.2, is it possible that 31.1 isn't the fix but they've changed the adaptation?
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      10-15-2008, 01:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The V29.2 Progman update was designed to minimise, or at best eradicate, the rattling wastegate issue that was being experienced by quite a few 335i drivers. Essentially, what was happening was that at low revs the engine management closes the wastegates - however some wastegates suffered from a deterioration in freedom of movement, and therefore didn't close 100%. Because they weren't sealing properly, they were rattling away when the throttle moved from an open to fully closed position.

The solution BMW came up with was to reprogram the ECU so that it would keep the wastegates open until 3000 revs, therefore reducing the rattling. However, the downside to this is that the engine suffers from increased turbo lag at low revs, and hence the dispute in the USA started with drivers complaining that the V29.2 reduced the drivability and performance of the 335i.

In practice, there is a noticeable increase in turbo lag with the V29.2 software (i had it on my car a few months ago, then changed back to V28.2 software because of this). BMW however realised that the software change did not fix the inherent wear problem with the wastegates, and so have recently issued an internal PUMA report to instruct dealers to replace the wastegates if there is sign of considerable rattling from the engine.

The good news is that BMW are now on V31.1 Progman software, and I can report that the drivability is the same as that when I had V28.x.

Bottom line - your car is going in for service and a software update - the software will be updated to V31.1, and you should have no problems or worries
Thanks, that's made me feel a bit better about getting the upgrade. Did they try 30.2 on your car as well?
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      10-15-2008, 01:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbodle View Post
Thanks, that's made me feel a bit better about getting the upgrade. Did they try 30.2 on your car as well?
My dealer claims there's nothing in 31.1 to fix any lag or wastegate problems. Somehow we have to get to the bottom of this.
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