[PhJ]

Many discussions have been going on and concerns have been raised about the weight of the new G80 M3 and G82 M4. The BMW recent video « M3 & M4 – explained, Episode 01» (reference (1)) gave interesting information on this hot topic but it also brought some confusion in an unexpected weight comparison made between the old and the new M4 models. More information on this will be given at the end of this article.

The weight of cars has had the tendency to increase in every car segment over many years now and this, for several reasons such as increased size of the vehicles, new safety regulations, more and more features added in standard equipment and so on.

Many customers do not care too much about the weight of their vehicle. But this is not the case for drivers of sport cars such as most BMW M drivers. Why? Simply because, when holding other car characteristics constant, a higher car weight generally means lower performance, less agility, less sharp handling, slower accelerations, less efficient braking as well as higher fuel consumption. A car with a contained weight contributes furthermore to sheer driving pleasure, the advertising slogan of BMW. This is why the car weight is so important to M drivers. Colin Chapman, the well known boss of Lotus, said:” Light is right. Adding power makes you faster in the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”.

To find out if the weight of a brand new car model is contained or not, we usually compare it to its competitors or to its predecessors. These comparisons seem quite obvious to perform but in real life it is not, and you have to be very cautious when doing so. First of all, when the car weight is given as weight (kg or lbs) without any additional information, forget it because you have no way to find out what this weight corresponds to: does this include fluids, fuel (how much?), luggage, driver, or optional equipment? This can make a big difference.

It is a good idea to use the European weight regulation for apples-to-apples weight comparison between cars. European standards are referred to by the label ‘EU’.



Another good reference for car weight is the Deutsche DIN standard which gives a lower value than the EU weight by 75 kg, as it does not include the driver (75kg)

DIN weight = EU weight – 75 kg

It is a good idea to cross check the EU and the DIN car weights for a given car and to check that the two weight figures differ by 75 kg (EU weight being higher). It is also recommended to cross-check the EU weight of a car on several websites as errors may occur. Be careful and check that the weight figures make sense.

Now that the car weight reference has been defined, let’s look at the EU weight of the new G80 and G82 models and compare them to the weight of their respective predecessors, the F80 and F82.

Two representative models of the G8X range have been selected for a weight comparison with their predecessors: the G80 M3 MT (6-speed Manual Transmission) and the G82 M4 AUT (8-speed M Steptronic Automatic Transmission) Competition.

From now on, we will add the AUT abbreviation to the name of any car with an automatic transmission, independently of the type of automatic transmission (DCT, Steptronic or other) and the abbreviation MT will be added to identify cars with a manual transmission. This will allow a straight identification of the type of transmission for each car examined, as the transmission type does matter when comparing car weights.

First comparison: EU weight of 2015 BMW F80 M3 MT vs 2021 BMW G80 M3 MT, both cars having a 6-speed manual transmission (MT).



The EU weight increase from F80 to G80 M3 MT models is considerable.

Weight increase is detrimental to the accelerations. Indeed, despite a power increase from 431 PS (F80 MT) to 480 PS (G80 MT), the G80 MT does not accelerate faster from 0 to 60 MPH (in 4.1 sec) than its predecessor (F80 MT). The power to weight ratio is indeed nearly the same for the two cars: 3.71 kg/PS (G80 MT) and 3.70 kg/PS (F80 MT). The power increase from F80 to G80 is basically wiped out by the weight increase. The story may differ at higher speeds in favor of the car with the lower aerodynamic drag (air resistance). We have so far no data on this for the G80.

The G8X MT maximum torque is 550 Nm from 2650 till 6150 rpm and it is 550 Nm at a lower revs range (from 1850 rpm till 5500 rpm) for the F80 MT. It is therefore anticipated that the G80 MT will be a less pleasant daily driver than the F80 MT due to its much higher weight and an unchanged max torque (vs F80) combined with a lower torque below 2500 rpm. The weight to torque ratio is in favor of the F80 MT (2.9 kg/Nm) versus 3.2 kg/Nm for the G80 MT. The G80 AUT has a higher maximum torque, 650 Nm, and therefore a better weight to torque ratio of 2.8 kg/Nm. Bad luck for MT fans (I am one of them).

Why has BMW limited the torque to 550 Nm on the G80 MT model whereas it reaches 650 Nm on the G80 AUT Competition model and 600 Nm on the X4M featuring also the S58 engine? Most probably because 550 Nm is the max. torque that the 6-speed MT gear box can support. Developing a new stronger manual gear box to handle 650 Nm would probably cost too much money for the expected low sales of manual transmission M cars. What a pity! The need for a higher torque is furthermore more required for the MT as the manual transmission has “only” 6-speed versus 8-speed for the automatic Steptronic. This means that the engine will be operating more often at a lower and wider rev range with MT than with AUT, reinforcing the need for a higher torque at low revs.

Part of the big weight increase on the G8X is due to the addition of several stiffening elements to the chassis. This will hopefully be beneficial to the handling, the chassis poise and to the driving precision.



Part of the EU weight increase on G8X is also due to the increased car length compared to its predecessors as shown in the following graph.



The M3 models have systematically grown in size and often also in weight since the M3 E30, the beloved first M3 model.

Interestingly, despite a car length increase of 91 mm from E90 to F80, the EU weight of the F80 has significantly decreased compared to its predecessor, the E90, as shown below. A particular focus had been put on weight reduction during the development of the F80. The switch from a 4.0-litre V8 engine (S65) to a 3.0-litre in-line 6 engine (S55) contributed obviously to that effort. It is a pity that BMW did not manage to limit more the weight increase on the G8X M3&M4 models, despite the Carbon Fiber roof and the lightweight aluminium bonnet and doors.



Second comparison: EU weight of 2016 BMW F82 M4 AUT Competition vs 2021 BMW G82 M4 AUT Competition.



The second EU weight comparison shows an increase of 185 kg from the F82 Competition to the G82 Competition M4 models both with automatic transmission (7-speed DCT for F82 and 8-speed Steptronic automatic for G82). This is exactly the same considerable weight increase as for the first comparison between F80 and G80 M3 models both with a 6-speed manual transmission.

You expect the BMW M4 Coupe to be lighter than the M3 Sedan. This was true for the F82 M4 Coupé model which was 23 kg lighter than the corresponding F80 M3 Sedan model. Surprisingly, this is hardly the case anymore with the new G82 M4 which is only 5 kg lighter than the G80 M3.



We found interesting to look at the global picture of the weight links across the different F8x and G8x models. We decided to not include the confidential and exclusive F80 M3 CS, F82 M4 CS and the even more exclusive F82 M4 GTS in the global picture of the outgoing F8x family which is anyway broader than the current family of the G8x models as shown below:



Finally, we examined the unexpected weight comparison made in a recent video (reference (1)) referred to in the first paragraph. We found out that a graphical view of the path leading to the “final” weights of the ‘selected’ F82 and G82 M4 configurations was much more informative than a long discussion on this subject.



Why the above weight comparison may be unfair? Simply because a manual transmission (MT) is lighter than an automatic transmission (AUT), 40 kg lighter for the F82! Comparing the weight of a F82 AUT with a G82 MT is therefore unfair to the F82. Furthermore, adding heavy options to increase the weight of the F82 makes the comparison even more biased especially when, at the same time, very expense light weight options are added to the G82 MT to decrease its weight. The fairest weight comparison in the end has to be made between models with the same transmission type (in this case, a manual transmission), excluding any optional equipment and fulfilling the EU weight requirements, as shown below.



The weight increase from M4 F82 MT to M4 G82 MT is 203 kg, 18 kg more than for the previous comparison between M3 F80 MT and M3 G80 MT. The weight loss when choosing an M4 instead of an M3 is 18 kg bigger for the old models (F8X) than for the new models (G8X). In other words, choosing a new M4 (G82) to replace an old M4 (F82) amplifies the weight increase observed between an old and a new M3 models.


Weight comparison of G8x versus its competitors

We have so far focused on the weight of the new M3 & M4 G8x versus its predecessors. Let’s now focus on the weight of the G8x versus its current competitors.

The BMW M3 G80 Competition (AUT) was selected as the basis for this comparison. The main competitors are the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Verde (QV) with an automatic transmission (AUT) and the Mercedes AMG C63S only available with an automatic transmission (AUT). The three cars M3 G80 AUT Comp, Giulia QV AUT and the AMG C63S AUT have key common features: 510 PS, four door sedan, rear wheel drive and an automatic transmission (AUT). The comparison is however a little bit special as the production of the Giulia QV AUT and of the AMG C63S AUT current models has been recently stopped due to the WLTP new regulation for pollutant emissions. Apparently, the next Mercedes AMG C63S to be launched in 2022 will downsize from a 4.0-litre V8 engine to a hybrid four-cylinder 2.0-litre engine derived from the engine in the recent AMG A 45S model. As seen below, the 2021 M3 G80 AUT Competition is heavier than its current outgoing competitors without being more powerful (510 PS, same value as for the competitors).



All the analyses made in this article about the new G8X M3 & M4 models are based only on claimed numbers communicated so far (weight, dimension, power, and so on). The new G8x models have been uncovered about six months ago and I have seen it in person for the first time on September 4, 2020 during an exclusive evening event organized in Luxembourg. The M3 is an icon and it has to be identified at the first look. The new G8x fulfills for sure this requirement, thanks to its aggressive front look, thanks to its big four exhaust pipes (not fake!), thanks to its bulging rear arches and its Carbon Fiber roof. No doubt: the shape of the new G80 M3 has a lot of character and it is special, even if its massive front kidney grille is controversial. I personally like it a lot but this is subjective. The appearance of the new G8X is the only ‘concrete’ aspect that we have been able to talk about so far.

How will be the driving feeling, the agility, the handling, the comfort, the braking, the performance, the steering wheel feedback, the driving pleasure of the new G8x? Will it be more planted than the F80 M3 on bumpy roads? We do not know yet, despite having waited already for so long. The G8x production has started on November 2020 and the first deliveries will take place in March 2021 (see reference (3)). By that time, we hope that the embargo on test drive publications will be over. I am too impatient to read the first driving reviews of the M3 G80. What can we expect from the reviews? Well, the analysis made in this article is based on what we have so far, just theoretical numbers that do not look promising due to the considerable weight increase over the previous generation of M3 and M4. We can only hope that most of the added weight has been very well invested to get a superb chassis.

The chassis reference in the sedan sport car segment is the outgoing Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Verde (QV) which set an oustanding lap time on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, the so called ‘green hell’ test circuit. The Alfa Giulia QV set on November 2016 a lap time of 7 min 32 sec on the Nordschleife (see reference (4) video). This is 20 seconds faster, nearly 1 sec faster per track km, than the best lap time set by the F82 M4 in 2014: 7 min 52 sec (see Reference (5)). By how many seconds will the new G80 Competition close the gap with the Giulia QV on one Nordschleife lap? Difficult to answer. Both the new G80 Competition and the Giulia QV have 510 PS but the Giulia is 110 kg lighter. That makes a big difference. The G80 is therefore unlikely to beat the Giulia QV but how close will it be? We will know it for sure in the coming month(s)…


References
(1) BMW video on ‘Performance and Weight, M3 and M4- explained, Episode 01’:
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?

(2) Publications for EU weight figures:
F80 M3 MT & DCT , F82 M4 MT & DCT: click on Tech Specs on the left side menu in https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=923203

It was difficult to find out the EU weight of F8x Competition models. We cross-checked that the curb weights mentioned on the web site auto-data were actually the DIN weight. The EU weight of F8X Competion models was therefore derived from the (DIN) curb weight by adding the driver weight (75 kg).
DIN weight of F80 M3 MT Comp. (2016): https://www.auto-data.net/en/bmw-m3-....0-450hp-24267
DIN weight of F80 M3 AUT Comp. (2016): https://www.auto-data.net/en/bmw-m3-...50hp-dct-24343
DIN weight of F82 M4 MT Comp. (2016): https://www.autodata.net/en/bmw-m4-f....0-450hp-24321
DIN weight of F80 M4 AUT Comp. (2016): https://www.auto-data.net/en/bmw-m4-...50hp-dct-24268

G80 M3 MT on the official BMW Luxembourg site:https://www.bmw.lu/fr/all-models/m-s...3-berline.html
G80 M3 AUT Comp. on the official BMW Luxembourg site:
https://www.bmw.lu/fr/all-models/m-s...n-berline.html
G82 M4 MT on the official BMW Luxembourg site: https://www.bmw.lu/fr/all-models/m-s...oup%C3%A9.html
G82 M4 AUT on the official BMW Luxembourg site: https://www.bmw.lu/fr/all-models/m-s...oup%C3%A9.html

Total weight savings of the M Race Track Pack on G8x: click on M race Track Pack in https://configure.bmw.lu/fr_LU/configure/G82
Details on G8x weight savings (M Race Track Pack):
-Carbon bucket seats and carbon ceramics brakes: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1790334
-Lightweight 826M rims: 2 kg = 25kg –10 kg –13 kg

Alfa Giulia QV AUT: https://zeperfs.com/fiche6349-alfa-r...ii-qv-auto.htm
Mercedes Benz AMG C63S AUT: https://zeperfs.com/fiche5720-mercedes-c-63-amg-s.htm

(3) G8x start of production and date of first delivery https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1800044

(4) Video of the Nordschleife lap record set by an Alfa Giulia QV AUT on September 2016:

(5) F82 M4 Nordschleife lap time:
[/url]https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife[/url]

[solstice]

If it’s an issue? Not for me. Sorry didn’t read more than your question and don’t intend to

[bm323]

PhJ, well written article.

[EXE46]

Thanks for the article, though I will say reading it makes me depress and diminishes my interest. Soon we will know if numbers on paper do tell the whole story. Hope we can revisit when we have more tangible data ala lap times in comparison to the F series as well as the Alfa.

[ryanb06]

In the first weight chart, I think you are comparing the F82 MT (not F80) weight to a G80 AT. I think the real weight delta between generations is probably somewhere around 80 kilos

[Transfer]

tldr world champ this one.

How about we get some driving impressions before discussing weight.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by ryanb06

In the first weight chart, I think you are comparing the F82 MT (not F80) weight to a G80 AT. I think the real weight delta between generations is probably somewhere around 80 kilos

"think"?? ... For matters on weight, good to provide references and point out which of OP's references don't support his article or his references are erroneous.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Transfer

...

How about we get some driving impressions before discussing weight.

many waiting long long ...

[zamboni]

Nice write up thanks for sharing.

[SeanWRT]

Very informative article!

My opinion:
1) Should compare to the F8X GPF model.
2) Bucket Seat for G8X should count, as it's exclusive to G8X.
3) Should spec up the F8X to similar to the G8X.

I guess weight difference would be 120~150kg under above conditions, assuming the weight claims are accurate.

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by solstice

If it’s an issue? Not for me. Sorry didn’t read more than your question and don’t intend to

Hello Solstice,

Thanks for your interesting comment. Can you please elaborate on why the weight of G8x new M3&M4 is not an issue for you ? I will read your reply with attention. Thanks in advance.

PS: we have something in common, at least : we both are the owner of a F80 MT and I love so much my car.

PhJ

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by bm323

PhJ, well written article.

Thanks a lot for your nice comment, Captain.
PhJ

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Transfer

tldr world champ this one.

How about we get some driving impressions before discussing weight.

Too defensive.

It's a thread entirely about weight. Seems very detailed and if true the increase isn't great.

Driving impressions will be superb I'm sure but it's a thread all about the weight, that's fair enough.

[O5E46M3]

I didn't buy an Audi RS5 / S5 10 years ago because it was AWD and heavy/GT.

Why the hell would I buy one now with a BMW badge lol? M3 was always what the Audis and Mercs weren't, a non GT scalpel.

We've gone backwards, everyone should jump ship to Porsche while it lasts.

[CklSpeciale]

Thanks for the post. Bit sad when I see the figures. 200kg increase is a lot. I was complaining about the c63s being too heavy and now G82 is even heavier.

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Thanks for the article, though I will say reading it makes me depress and diminishes my interest. Soon we will know if numbers on paper do tell the whole story. Hope we can revisit when we have more tangible data ala lap times in comparison to the F series as well as the Alfa.

Hello Exe46,
You are welcome. I understand your feeling so well because I felt the same way when, after an in depth research for valid information, I discovered the real weight of G8x. I am myself so disappointed as I love so much my F80 MT and was so excited about the new model. I really hope that test drives and lap times will contradict the currently available data on G8x, but the Physics laws are universal eventhough some heavy cars manage to hide somehow their weight thanks to the work of bright engineers.

PhJ

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by ryanb06

In the first weight chart, I think you are comparing the F82 MT (not F80) weight to a G80 AT. I think the real weight delta between generations is probably somewhere around 80 kilos

Hello Ryanb06,
I have checked and cross-checked several times on different websites all the weight figures mentioned in the article. I confirm that in the first weight chart, I am comparing the F80MT weight to a G80MT (apples-to-apples comparison).

Sorry but the weight delta between the last generation and the G8x is min 185kg and NOT 80kg. I would really have preferred that you would be right.
You will find at the end of the article all the associated web links.
PhJ
Below is a snapshot of the display on the BimmerPost web link with the weight of F80MT (I have highlighted en blue the EU weight of F80MT on the left column. The right column is for F82)



Here is now the snapshot of the display on the BMW Luxembourg site link showing the EU weight of the G80MT (highlighted also in blue)

[CanAutM3]

You obviously put a fair bit of thought is this write up. I share your interest in understanding the weight evolution. There are however a few flaws in the assumptions used:

The DIN/EU standards have evolved in time, so it is not really possible to compare numbers from 2014, 2016 and 2020 between them. While I am not happy with the weight increase of the G8X, I don't believe it will be anywhere near 185kg for equivalently specced cars.

The DIN/EU weight penaltly of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was later revised to 25kg, which is much more consistent to what it should be.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PhJ

Hello Ryanb06,
I have checked and cross-checked several times on different websites all the weight figures mentioned in the article. I confirm that in the first weight chart, I am comparing the F80MT weight to a G80MT (apples-to-apples comparison).

Sorry but the weight delta between the last generation and the G8x is min 185kg and NOT 80kg. I would really have preferred that you would be right.
You will find at the end of the article all the associated web links.
PhJ
Below is a snapshot of the display on the BimmerPost web link with the weight of F80MT (I have highlighted en blue the EU weight of F80MT on the left column. The right column is for F82)



Here is now the snapshot of the display on the BMW Luxembourg site link showing the EU weight of the G80MT (highlighted also in blue)

As posted above, DIN/EU standards have changed over time, so it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. If you keep on cross checking the wrong information, you will keep getting the same wrong conclusion .

Look at that M4 DIN weight of 1,497kg in your screenshot. I challenge you to find an F82 M4 at that weight anywhere in the world

I tend to prefer using actual weighing from reliable publications in combination with the option listed for the specific vehicle to do comparisons. Auto Motor und Sport is one of the more reliable EU publications regarding weights, and their "light" specced 6MT F82 M4 weighed ~82kg less than the G82 M4 showcased in the Performance and weight video. IMO, this is a better direct comparison.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=39

[ryanb06]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As posted above, DIN/EU standards have changed over time, so it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. If you keep on cross checking the wrong information, you will keep getting the same wrong result .

Look at that M4 DIN weight of 1,497kg in your screenshot. I challenge you to find an M4 at that weight anywhere in the world

I tend to prefer using actual weighing from reliable publications in combination with the option listed for the specific vehicle to do comparisons. Auto Motor und Sport is one of the more reliable EU publications regarding weights, and their "light" specced 6MT F82 M4 weighed ~82kg less than the G82 M4 showcased in the Performance and weight video. IMO, this is a better direct comparison.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=39

lol thanks for doing the legwork. I did some rough calcs after the first M3/M4 Explained video and came up with roughly 80 kilos and knowing the weight of my M4 6MT.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You obviously put a fair bit of thought is this write up. I share your interest in understanding the weight evolution. There are however a few flaws in the assumptions used:

The DIN/EU standards have evolved in time, so it is not really possible to compare numbers from 2014, 2016 and 2020 between them. While I am not happy with the weight increase of the G8X, I don't believe it will be anywhere near 185kg for equivalently specced cars.

The DIN/EU weight penaltly of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was later revised to 25kg, which is much more consistent to what it should be.

This is the only sensible post in the whole thread.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You obviously put a fair bit of thought is this write up. I share your interest in understanding the weight evolution. There are however a few flaws in the assumptions used:

The DIN/EU standards have evolved in time, so it is not really possible to compare numbers from 2014, 2016 and 2020 between them. While I am not happy with the weight increase of the G8X, I don't believe it will be anywhere near 185kg for equivalently specced cars.

The DIN/EU weight penaltly of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was later revised to 25kg, which is much more consistent to what it should be.

PhJ is using published weights of the 2 models when they were first launched (?) in his comparison. In your post above, you are using the actual weight of the F8X (at which point in time? and did it actually change in the course of time?); but do we know the actual weight of an identically/similarly specced G8X?