BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      07-12-2007, 12:02 PM   #1
dkl2001
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Software Upgrade Future

For those curious, I contacted AA. They said they are confident their chip for the 335i will fit right in with the 135i. I'd say the window of tweaking would be really small since they have already battled the engine. Anyone else have any thoughts?



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      07-12-2007, 12:36 PM   #2
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That is good to know. Way to be proactive, now all we need is the car:headbang:
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      07-12-2007, 05:08 PM   #3
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What company is AA??
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      07-12-2007, 05:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
What company is AA??
Active Autowerke
http://www.activeautowerke.com/

there's also

Vishnu Tuning
http://www.vishnutuning.com/

my guess would be since it's the same engine that it should be very simple to chip the 135i.
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      07-13-2007, 12:27 AM   #5
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yeah i would like software that is reversible so i don't have to void the warranty. btw the Vishnu exhaust system sounds really good... but then again so does the stock 335i. I wonder how much different the 135i will sound since it features a single muffler design.
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      07-13-2007, 10:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickmanM3 View Post
yeah i would like software that is reversible so i don't have to void the warranty. btw the Vishnu exhaust system sounds really good... but then again so does the stock 335i. I wonder how much different the 135i will sound since it features a single muffler design.
word that's the best thing about these tuning softwares .. i just hope BMW doesn't implement something within the 135i that tracks it :wink: i'm sure they aren't oblivious to what's going on within the tuning world and their cars.
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      07-13-2007, 06:07 PM   #7
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Be very careful with reversible software. The Germans are on to this. Apparently the dealer will not know of any software changes but, when the dealer updates the factory BMW AG has the ability to detect ANY software tampering or changes on these cars. According to a tech advisors, who is also a friend, this hit the streets with the e90.
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      07-14-2007, 03:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggin02s View Post
Be very careful with reversible software. The Germans are on to this. Apparently the dealer will not know of any software changes but, when the dealer updates the factory BMW AG has the ability to detect ANY software tampering or changes on these cars. According to a tech advisors, who is also a friend, this hit the streets with the e90.
that's why it's always great to have hook ups at the dealer u service at :thumbup:
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      07-14-2007, 10:01 AM   #9
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I have been lurking for a bit and thought this would be as good an excuse to post as any. I am not sure how BMW (or any other manufacturer) could track a piggyback system like the PROcede. Since it is not actually affecting the programming of the ECU, removing it should leave no footprint. This differs from systems like the Cobb Accessport I have on my car which actually reflashes the ECU. Even though the car can be "reflashed" to stock, there have been rumors that such changes can be detected.
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      07-14-2007, 09:12 PM   #10
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I honestly couldn't tell you how it works. Or, if it even works like he said it does. I do know is that the dealer has voided several warranties ( half dozen or so) already. Maybe the guy is pulling my leg, hell I don't know. I just found it to be something to consider.
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      07-15-2007, 07:36 AM   #11
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Piggyback systems sit in line between the ECU and the engine/sensors/etc. They intercept and modify the signals. A over-simplified (and likely inaccurate) example would be for a piggyback to modify RPM data so that the ECU still saw 6500 when the engine was in fact at 7000. Bingo, new and higher redline cutoff.
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      07-15-2007, 07:39 AM   #12
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Yes but when the perameters are changed, the DME knows it hence, BMW AG knows it. Eventually.
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      07-15-2007, 07:47 AM   #13
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I wont feel comfortable until I hear people with software mods by the boat loads arent being detected by the dealers.
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      07-15-2007, 08:57 AM   #14
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I can understand the concern of breaking a $30k plus car and, in the process, voiding the warranty. That said, tuners like Vishnu have a proven record of safe products.

From their website:

Quote:
Q: The PROcede is a type of “piggy-back,” what’s that?
A: Piggy-back computers, by definition, work in conjunction with the factory ECU, not against of it. The PROcede essentially intercepts and recalibrates all the sensors signals to induce a higher level of performance without the ECU being the wiser.
As I understand Magnuson-Moss, a warrantor would need to demonstrate that some modification to the vehicle was the direct cause of the warranty issue in order to void coverage.
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      07-15-2007, 11:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbluelb View Post
I can understand the concern of breaking a $30k plus car and, in the process, voiding the warranty. That said, tuners like Vishnu have a proven record of safe products.

From their website:



As I understand Magnuson-Moss, a warrantor would need to demonstrate that some modification to the vehicle was the direct cause of the warranty issue in order to void coverage.

That's exactly right. The piggy-back system intercepts the signal before it gets to the ECU. The piggy-back system changes the reading going into the ECU. Normally this is done with mass air-flow meter signals and fuel-injector pulse width values. Say your car has 3.5lbs./minute air flow through the MAF cruising at 50MPH. The piggy-back system can change the values of either the MAF of fuel injectors to make the car run rich or lean depending on conditions. So instead of 3.5lbs./min., the ECU sees 3.7lbs./min. which would be normal values for say 60MPH. Since there is "more" air in the system, the ECU will adjust the fuel injector pulse width to add more fuel. Now since there isn't actually more air in the system, the car can run richer (safer) and make more power as well.

It's kind of hard to explain, but it works as long as the piggy-back computer sends values to the ECU that are in the normal operating range. If the ECU sees a value out of range, it could store that and trigger a CEL. That would really be the only way for BMW to know.
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      09-13-2007, 12:05 AM   #16
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I am not sure how the BMW computer works, but I sometimes frequent a PowerStroke Diesel forum and Ford is voiding warranties of those guys who run software that modifies the performance of the diesel engine. Ford is able to tell when the chip has been used even if it has been taken out and the power recycled. I would be willing to bet that BMW has the same type of detection. And yes there is also the Moss-Magnuson Act, but I would imagine it is very easy to demonstrate that the chip programming is creating more boost than the factory design. The above is not necessarily fact, just my .02 from what I have gleaned from the discussion on that board. YMMV, and good luck!!
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      09-13-2007, 12:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggin02s View Post
I do know is that the dealer has voided several warranties ( half dozen or so) already. Maybe the guy is pulling my leg, hell I don't know. I just found it to be something to consider.
Every time I hear stuff about a dealer voiding a warrantie I always ask, Who was the dealer, who was the customer, and what are the details of the service issue. I never get a real answer. So until I get a detailed account, I'm shrugging stories like this off as urban legend.
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      09-20-2007, 01:52 PM   #18
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I have the Vishu Procede on my 335i and it is awesome and would recommend it to anyone. I cant want to get a 135i to mod the hell out of and do some comparison runs with side by side =)
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      09-20-2007, 01:59 PM   #19
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I'm still hoping Dinan will offer some decent tuning options. I'm not the type of person to gamble with a $16,000 engine. If i'm going to tune it, it's going to warrantied by someone.
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      09-20-2007, 02:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Every time I hear stuff about a dealer voiding a warrantie I always ask, Who was the dealer, who was the customer, and what are the details of the service issue. I never get a real answer. So until I get a detailed account, I'm shrugging stories like this off as urban legend.

I agree 100% here, you need details before you starting making a decision. I wouldn't start messing around with the ECU system until it is guaranteed not to screw up the warranty. I'm sorry but I don't have that kind of money to mess with.
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      09-20-2007, 04:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbluelb View Post
That said, tuners like Vishnu have a proven record of safe products.
I'll let time be the judge. Maybe no one remembers the numerous Vishnu tuned Evos that blew up...
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      09-20-2007, 04:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vornado View Post
I'm still hoping Dinan will offer some decent tuning options. I'm not the type of person to gamble with a $16,000 engine. If i'm going to tune it, it's going to warrantied by someone.
Dinan parts were never covered by BMW. Warranty claims from BMW were submitted to Dinan and Dinan would pay for them. Either way no cash out of your pocket.

IIRC, Dinan and BMW parted ways this year. Dinan will still make after market parts for BMW, but I'm not sure if the warranty relationship still exists. You could get parts out of the BMW Performance Catalog and not have to worry about your warranty.
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