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      07-14-2008, 08:26 PM   #1
BerkTechnology
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How to reduce understeer: 3 cheap or free mods you can do

I had this question asked via PM, thought it was pertinent enough to post.

Three things that you can do to reduce understeer AND keep the same stock ride you have now.

1. 5mm spacers for the front. Will increase the front track. But will probably want to purchase a stud kit. The Vorshlag 60mm tud kit is what we are using. There's enough length on the studs to run a ~10mm spacer if you have to in the future.

2. Rear sway bar - the bar itself is fairly inexpensive, but labor might be pricey. Install is a major PITA without a lift or proper experience. 90% of you guys should NOT try the install at home. The rear sway is a VERY worthwhile upgrade. It not for the install pain, it would be #1 on the list.

3. Grind down the alignment pin - you should be able to get an additional ~0.5 deg neg camber out of the stock setup. Just remove the front struts, and grind down the alingment pin. It's the small "bump" that you see on the stock top hats. It protudes out of the shock tower as well, the OEM shock towers have an opening for it. The stock shock towers are slotted, but with the alignment pin it doesn't seem to allow you to use the full adjustment that's there. So free mod here, it'll just take some elbow grease.

4. Camber plates - Not that cheap, but will help tons and will have minimal effect on the comfortable stock ride. You will have slightly worse front tire wear but the increased front grip will be fairly substantial. We're running the Vorshlag plates in the front, but go with whoever.

Lastly, not cheap, but this will give you the best bang for your buck, KW V3's. We use the V3's on all of our race cars. We used the Japanese stuff for some years, in 2005 we switched over to KW and never looked back. On the E82 in particular, you'd be amazed at how easy it is to drive fast in the car, and how compliant the suspension is on the street. IMO, it's a perfect balance between a sporty yet comfortable ride, and spring rates that are stiff enough to go fast when pushed. I think KW nailed it on the head for a street driven car that sees occasional track duty. If you can, go for a test ride in someone else's KW V3 equipped 1er.

Hope that helps!
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      07-14-2008, 10:11 PM   #2
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"...I think KW nailed it on the head for a street driven car that sees occasional track duty"... I thought I read that the KW V2 would meet this need? Do you really think I would need to step up to the V3 for the use you describe above? A bit of a newbie on suspension but am trying to understand the real need between the V2 and V3. Thanks.

Great post by the way
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      07-14-2008, 10:49 PM   #3
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Good OP, good question...eagerly awaiting the answer...
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      07-15-2008, 07:22 AM   #4
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you forgot one. Larger front tires and wheels.

also with a good set of vise grips you can just twist the alignment pins off. that way you do not need to remove the struts, much much quicker.
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      07-15-2008, 09:36 AM   #5
BerkTechnology
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TMC - There's such a small difference in price between the V2 & V3. You might as well get the dual adjustability of the V3's. I'm fairly certain that they use the same spring for all of them, V1, V2, & V3's. If you are just a looking for the lowered stance, and a quality coilover, I would say go with the V1. There is some decent coin to be saved there.

BMWeber - new wheel/tire setup is a given, but we're listing off cheaper budget mods.

Good tip on the alingment pins!
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      07-15-2008, 09:36 AM   #6
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To add to the list - but not car specific, see here
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      07-15-2008, 09:47 AM   #7
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Great post! FYI, the alignment pins twist out. So, there's no need to grind them down.

Also, I would recommend a 10mm spacer with hubcentric ring built onto it for the fronts. I use that with my stock 215 fronts and there's plenty of room still. It also gives it a bit more aggressive look. Use the longer lug bolts that come with the 10mm spacers, and you won't need wheel studs.

I hate using 5mm spacers because they do not have a hubcentric ring, and you are putting too much weight on the bolts.
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      07-15-2008, 10:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Also, I would recommend a 10mm spacer with hubcentric ring built onto it for the fronts. I use that with my stock 215 fronts and there's plenty of room still. It also gives it a bit more aggressive look. Use the longer lug bolts that come with the 10mm spacers, and you won't need wheel studs.
So has the question of accelerated hub/bearing wear been settled?

If you use a spacer on stock rims, there will be extra torque applied to the hub - and possibly to the bearing (not sure of the actual geometry and if is the case or not).

Can we please have the "definitive" word on this? :smile:
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      07-15-2008, 10:43 AM   #9
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I can't remember which forum it came from, but the definitive answer on load was that the 'load bearing surface' was between the hub face (not the hub lip) and the back of the wheel bolt pattern. That does not address the bearing question, although I've never heard of BMW wheel bearing failures being a problem.
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      07-15-2008, 10:51 AM   #10
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adc, yes, you are putting more stress on the hubs. However, BMWs are not prone to issues with bearing. I know that Evos and WRXs are. I've been doing track and autocross events with BMW clubs for a decade, and bearings are not a weak point of these cars, even with cut out fenders and 30mm spacers.
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      07-15-2008, 11:03 AM   #11
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Super guys, thanks! :thumbup:
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      07-15-2008, 11:20 AM   #12
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BerkTechnology, why aren't you recommending KW club sport that has a adjustable top mount? It will allow about negative 2 degrees camber if I am not mistaken...
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      07-15-2008, 01:15 PM   #13
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Are you saying rear sway bar is adequate, why not replacing both front and rear sway bar at the same time?
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      07-15-2008, 05:14 PM   #14
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nice post. I am totally on the fence between KW's and a TCK setup. Very hard to decide. Any insight? Also interested in hearing why no the club sports.
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      07-15-2008, 05:41 PM   #15
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Just curious -- why is the rear sway a pain to install? On other vehicles, I've found this to be one of the more painless ones to do (although these were all FWD cars...so I've probably just answered my question....)
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      07-15-2008, 05:47 PM   #16
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It's a thread the needle operation that requires dropping the rear suspension's sub-frame.
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      07-17-2008, 01:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
FYI, the alignment pins twist out. So, there's no need to grind them down.
OK, this is probably a dumb question (but those are the ones I'm best at)... Do the pins twist out from the top or do you have to pull the struts to get them out? I've seen several different posts so far that have referenced "twist them out", "drill them out", "drive them out" and "grind them down". Just curious what I'm in for before I attack this.

TIA!!
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      07-17-2008, 02:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiplash View Post
OK, this is probably a dumb question (but those are the ones I'm best at)... Do the pins twist out from the top or do you have to pull the struts to get them out? I've seen several different posts so far that have referenced "twist them out", "drill them out", "drive them out" and "grind them down". Just curious what I'm in for before I attack this.

TIA!!
get a good par of vise grips

jack up the car

loosen the three nuts on the strut top.

then use the good set of vise grips on alignment stud and twist.
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      07-17-2008, 02:16 PM   #19
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The pins are roughly threaded, like self tapping, but the hole on the strut hat is not threaded. You can use a allen wrench on it to unscrew it, but it twists out just as easily with a set of pliers/vicegrips.
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      07-17-2008, 02:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
The pins are roughly threaded, like self tapping, but the hole on the strut hat is not threaded. You can use a allen wrench on it to unscrew it, but it twists out just as easily with a set of pliers/vicegrips.
for me the Allen wrench was way to small to get a good amount of torque on so I actually used the Allen wrench paired with the vise grips.

Larry did you take yours out with the struts in the car or out.
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      07-17-2008, 02:37 PM   #21
larryn
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On my e90, they were in. On the e82, I believe they were out, or at least dropped (3 nuts undone, and front sway endlink disconnected, with car jacked). I did it at the same time as the springs.
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      07-18-2008, 01:04 AM   #22
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anyone have a pic of this "pin" we are to remove???
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