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      12-15-2008, 04:05 PM   #1
emongoose
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Autocrossers find they need race harness?

In my past experience autocrossing corvettes, 5/6 point racing harnesses we're a "necessity" to keep you from having to use your arms and legs to keep you behind the wheel.

Do 135 auto-x racers find these to be needed? The seats are much more supportive in the 135 than in either my C5 or C6, but intuition tells me that won't be enough.

Searching the forum it appears that there are few solutions that make for "easy" switch from street to race belts. So before I go down a path preparing for the '09 season, I wanted to get some experienced feedback.
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      12-15-2008, 04:35 PM   #2
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Having done a few autoXs in the 135i, I find the following quite adequate for the sport seats:
- move the seat just short of where you want it.
- pull the lap belt tight
- snap the chest belt to latch the mechanism
- slide the seata the last couple of clicks
snug as a bug in a rug
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      12-15-2008, 06:24 PM   #3
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I have Schroth harnesses in my 135i and there is no substitute to having real harnesses. Having done about 300+ autox runs in this car, they are a neccessity for me.

For events where I don't have time to swap out the belts, I also have a CG Lock, that works extremely well to hold me snugly in. Between it and the adjustable side bolsters, I get locked in fairly well... not as good as harnesses, but pretty damned well.
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      12-15-2008, 07:07 PM   #4
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My old bimmer had the Schroth Quickfits and I loved them for autox. If they made Quickfits for the 1-seies I would be all over them. You don't really think about how much you put into keeping yourself still until you have a set of 4-pt belts in the car.

For those who do not have a CG Lock, the easiest thing to do is twist the belt at the belt buckle before clicking it into the receptacle. It may take you a couple of times before you figure out the exact twist spot so it would not be too loose or too tight. This is no where near as good as a 4-pt (or 5-pt or 6-pt) belt but it as good as a CG Lock.
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      12-15-2008, 07:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
I have Schroth harnesses in my 135i and there is no substitute to having real harnesses. Having done about 300+ autox runs in this car, they are a neccessity for me.

For events where I don't have time to swap out the belts, I also have a CG Lock, that works extremely well to hold me snugly in. Between it and the adjustable side bolsters, I get locked in fairly well... not as good as harnesses, but pretty damned well.

Are you using a 4, 5 or 6 point Schroth harness (maybe they only come in one style)? What attachment points do you use?
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      12-15-2008, 09:09 PM   #6
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The CG locks are awesome, these really keep you locked in the seat - spending less time bracing yourself and more time improving driving skills.

5-point harnesses being phased out quickly in favor of 6-point harnesses.
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      12-16-2008, 08:59 AM   #7
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Ok... so the CG Lock allows you to snug down the lap belt, but does nothing for the cross-shoulder belt, correct? A quick jerk on the shoulder belt will lock that, helping with forward motion, but this still leaves the issue of supporting lateral motion with your arms on the steering wheel. Guess that's better than nothing.

Still waiting to hear from larryn on his method for mounting the Schroth. I have a 6-point cam lock harness I used in my corvettes, but at this point it appears useless given current attachment options in the 135.
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      12-16-2008, 10:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emongoose View Post
Still waiting to hear from larryn on his method for mounting the Schroth. I have a 6-point cam lock harness I used in my corvettes, but at this point it appears useless given current attachment options in the 135.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6755 :biggrin:

Five or six point would require cutting (or replacing) your seats, which I did not want to do.
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      12-16-2008, 11:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emongoose View Post
Ok... so the CG Lock allows you to snug down the lap belt, but does nothing for the cross-shoulder belt, correct? A quick jerk on the shoulder belt will lock that, helping with forward motion, but this still leaves the issue of supporting lateral motion with your arms on the steering wheel. Guess that's better than nothing.

Still waiting to hear from larryn on his method for mounting the Schroth. I have a 6-point cam lock harness I used in my corvettes, but at this point it appears useless given current attachment options in the 135.
CG had a pretty good demo at SEMA a couple of months ago on which a seat was mounted on a tilt pivot that allowed the seat to rock side to side to simulate lateral movement. The CG Lock was able to keep you locked into place very well without bracing yourself.

Of course, this is no substitute for a proper harness on the track - but a well thought out innovative product.
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      12-16-2008, 04:18 PM   #10
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I know a guy that autocrossed an old '67 corvette convertible that only had a manually adjusted lap belt. Now the bucket seats on those old cars were as supportive as a park bench. So to keep from ending up upside down in the passenger seat floor board after a quick left turn, he would wrap a strap around the seat back and his chest, like he was tied to a tree.

I guess that would be cheaper than the Schroths (this might work for you karma8). Not pretty, and probably marginally effective, but he did what he had to to hold himself behind the wheel without undesireable (a lovely word that has a broad range of meaning from one person to the next :biggrin modifications.

I personally wouldn't go that route, even running a classic like that (I can be insecure and would fear ridcule from my peers), and I'm sure the "safety police" would have a heart attack.

Harness bar would be awesome... that's what I used in my corvettes, but they didn't have a back seat. "Hey kids... just duck under that really cool aluminum bar as you attempt to squirm yourself into the back seat. It'll give you something to hang on to when daddy's drivin!" A harness bar is typically not a quick install/uninstall, so unless your 135 is a dedicated racer (a lotta cash for that, isn't it???), or you are committing it to a 2-passenger vehicle, this won't cut it either.

Hang on... let me flush.

From a safety standpoint, you never use any safety restraint on the street that wasn't meant for the car. The rare instance that someone has added a roll cage that meets a racing organizations current requirement can be an exception to that rule, but from a practical standpoint, who wants to be completely plastered to their seat when they are headed for a bite at McDonalds.

Autocross is a "low speed" event that doesn't have strict rules on driver restraint. They figure if you fall out, at least you're wearing a helmet. So while a device like the Schroths that use the lower backseat attachment points could pose spinal compression issues upon "sufficient" impact, the likelihood of that happening in these type of events is pretty small (although we seen crazy stuff on youtube).

Maybe the CG clip is the way to go (along with the strap around the chest ).

Actually it sounds like we really don't have a solid solution for the E82's yet. Hopefully manufacturers will quickly find a solution. I do find it hard to believe that the baby seat mounts wouldn't hold even a 250lb driver. Seems like that would be one of the many over-engineered items in the car. Have you seen how big these babies can get now a days? And the mount is (should be) designed to retain a child seat and its occupant in the event of a collision. Let's see... a 40lb child and car seat travelling at 30 mph hits a tree... quick... somebody do the math. Mass x velocity = something. Seems like that's more than 250lbs. Using the upper mount to retain the shoulder belts would remove the "spinal compression issue". Now someone smarter than me tell me what I'm overlooking.

Where am I going with this?... I have no idea. In fact I think I just saw a big blue flash! What? What happened? :drinking:
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      12-16-2008, 06:02 PM   #11
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I've also seen a new thing with a couple drivers this past season. They use that perf foam rubber pad that goes under area rugs, to keep it from slipping, place it on the seat, and are locked in pretty tightly.

I tried it once and was sufficiently impressed. Obviously, for autocross, we are more interested in being held in place than the extremely unlikely crash. So, that padding made sense. I bet that the pad, in conjunction with something like a CG-Lock, and you'll be fairly firmly in there.
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