[stressdoc]

Someone needs to set up a blind test of the tunes (Rev II - JB3). Driver does not know which tune is in the car. Tries both. Writes review before they know which tune was which.

[enrita]

that would be a great review, we should also make sure the driver does not get a tune discount for a nice review.

[Kelvin1000]

Like the Coke and Pepsi challenge...

[bubbletea 4 me]

it's easy cuz they both feel so diff.. obviously, coming from a JB3, so i guess i can tell the diff..lol. but this would sound like an interesting test..

[brianhn1]

Instead of just one person, get 5 different people.

[OpenFlash]

You know I'm down for this.

[eazydoezit]

I have a Jb3 , I'm in the Bay area, and I'm willing to do some testing with both tunes

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Sounds like a great idea for when 1.3 software comes out.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Sounds like a great idea for when 1.3 software comes out.

Mike

Why not now?

[Kelvin1000]

I think this is a great idea but I will conceed that many of our butt dynos require calibration.

I remember when Dinan released their "revision 2". Most people said the car was smoother with more power down low, etc... Well it turned out that the initial automatics had been flashed back to stock accidentally and people were still ranting and raving about the "upgrade"...

I do agree having driven both that the differences are substantial but then again, I can always tell if I am drinking Pepsi or Coke. Sierra Mist and Sprite are a little harder to distinguish...

[kartracer]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Sounds like a great idea for when 1.3 software comes out.

Mike

Mike, any ETA for 1.3?!?

[scalbert]

Hrmm, I may be able to get a non-BMW owner and journalist to do this. I'll send an email right now.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by kartracer

Mike, any ETA for 1.3?!?

It's being developed and tested now based on user feedback from 1.22 and previous versions, here is a thread with more details:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230143

Mike

[stressdoc]

Cars need to be matched for other mods as well. I think the best way is to get two stock cars with Auto, although minor mods (intake) would be OK if they are identical. And by all means, the bigger the sample size of test drivers the better -- five would be great. I think an ideal situation to set this up would be at a BMWCCA local event. Credible, unbiased referees, appropriate and willing bunch of enthusiast testers. Just need reliable and trustworthy installers. It would be best to swap the tunes out of each car and retest.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

I think this is a great idea but I will conceed that many of our butt dynos require calibration.

I remember when Dinan released their "revision 2". Most people said the car was smoother with more power down low, etc... Well it turned out that the initial automatics had been flashed back to stock accidentally and people were still ranting and raving about the "upgrade"...

I do agree having driven both that the differences are substantial but then again, I can always tell if I am drinking Pepsi or Coke. Sierra Mist and Sprite are a little harder to distinguish...

I was one guy who knew right away that I was running stock. Even went to the trouble of dynoing to prove it to the shop... you know how the rest went.

Anyway, I have driven both PROCede and JB3 and I agree the difference are apparent enough that this test wont really be helpful. You can tell what you are driving right away. But then again, for all the guys who could not tell they had been flashed back to stock in that Dinan update, despite the huge difference flashed vs stock, would you trust their judgment of this? It would be random and completely unreliable. You need people with an accurate enough butt dyno for this. But how do you do that?

[RBP AW]

Not necessarily . . . Perhaps people who are familiar with n54 cars that haven't driven one that has been tuned OR people who have driven tuned n54s but not of the jb or vishnu type. I myself am one of the latter and feel that one in my situation could review both tunes accurately and unbiased

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Why not now?

Becasue at BMS they are reading some wiki about PID controllers and finding out that old boost control leads to overshoot in target values (causing throttle closure).

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

Becasue at BMS they are reading some wiki about PID controllers and finding out that old boost control leads to overshoot in target values (causing throttle closure).

Or Terry could just be trying to copy the PID system we incorporated in the PROcede nearly a year ago. R&D (Rip-off and Duplicate) at its best

shiv

[addicted2drums]

I am willing to be one of the guys to test. I don't have either jb or vishnu and i have never driven in a car with one of them installed. To be honest i don't plan on installing either one, I am pretty happy as my car is. I have been on the sidelines for awhile reading you guys go back and forth and I think it would be fun to help settle things...until the next version is out I guess.

I would recommend that first a set of measured test be set, acceleration from a dig, 30, 60, 1/4 mile times, track, cruising behind a slow pilot car like a geo metro to get a feel for daily drive ability and then an overall opinion. You can then take the cars to the dino's and get some real numbers to back up the butt tests. I probably just said something that you were all thinking, but I figured I would say it anyway.

I can get a few other people to help out as well. They are Volkswagen and Evo enthusiasts, and other than mine, I don't think they have never been in a BMW. So they are unbiased.

[AoshichanX]

Blind test can be taken literally: blindfold the test subject. This would probably enhance the related senses as well.

I am sure this test will be accomplished in some form or another before March, but I can easily set this up during my spring break.

However, I am doubtful what this will prove. It is well known that the V3 is smooth and JB3, while smooth, still gives retains some of the "kick in the pants" feel from its former incarnations.

Wouldn't this just lead to another preference debate? I think V3 should focus on its arguable advanced safety features--and explain these in detail using layman terms. That would be the primary selling point to me as a consumer since safety feature reservations aside, JB3 would have had me sold long ago if based purely on butt dyno. It is too bad I purchased my car. Had I leased it, my decision would have been so much easier. Considering the depreciation and the economy, my next car is definitely a lease.

And btw, I like Pepsi better than Coke. Pepsi has a cleaner crisper taste. However, Mexican Coke takes the cake. High fructose corn syrup FTL.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AoshichanX

However, I am doubtful what this will prove. It is well known that the V3 is smooth and JB3, while smooth, still gives retains some of the "kick in the pants" feel from its former incarnations.

There is more "kick in the pants" feel with v3. That is because there is more actual "kick in the pants." But conversely, it can also be driven smoothly and as gently as the driver demands. That's what people are seeing when given the chance to drive both tunes.

One allows them to drive the car. The other kinda drives it for them while ignoring a few important aspects of a tune. It doesn't seem like anyone has/would chosen the latter over the former when given the chance to drive both. Which is the whole reason for the 2 week return policy. Try both tunes in YOUR car for an extended period of time. The differences will be obvious right way, as others have said.

But like most improvements, the true value of the differences (response, smoothness, consistency, mpg, etc,.) will only become obvious until after you get some miles on it. And there is no short-cut when it comes to gleaning that information.

Shiv

[s2one]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Hrmm, I may be able to get a non-BMW owner and publicist to do this. I'll send an email right now.

I agree. The tester should be as impartial as possible. It cannot be a driver who has owned one tune or the other cause obviously that person would know how his/her respective tune drives.