[black335xi]

i got my car back from the dealer and they told me bad gas and they changed to hpfp and its styll doing the same thing so thats how i kno the dealer was saying bs. it still has a long crank.

[Bimmer Nerd]

Originally Posted by black335xi

i got my car back from the dealer and they told me bad gas and they changed to hpfp and its styll doing the same thing so thats how i kno the dealer was saying bs. it still has a long crank.

1st: what do they consider bad gas?
2nd: what kind of gas did you put in before it went out.
3rd: what do you put in now.

[black335xi]

93 like they said but what i dunt understand is that they said it was cranking before start because of bad gas they drained it and styll does the same thing.

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by black335xi

93 like they said but what i dunt understand is that they said it was cranking before start because of bad gas they drained it and styll does the same thing.

93 octane rating isn't what you need to be concerned with when purchasing fuel ......... in your case, bad fuel. You need to purchase from manufacturers that are recommended by BMWNA as they have the lowest amounts (if any in some cases) of ethanol content in their fuel. Likely, you have been purchasing the cheapest 93 octane fuel you can find thus causing the runnability issues with the car. Be aware that a dealer has every right to void a vehicle's warranty over this very issue if it's determined the fuel purchased/used in the vehicle contains more than 10% ethanol AND is the cause to the failure of the vehicle/part.

The recommended fuel retailers according to BMW and a few other auto makers can be found here:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

[ilidon]

Originally Posted by ToadHollow

93 octane rating isn't what you need to be concerned with when purchasing fuel ......... in your case, bad fuel. You need to purchase from manufacturers that are recommended by BMWNA as they have the lowest amounts (if any in some cases) of ethanol content in their fuel. Likely, you have been purchasing the cheapest 93 octane fuel you can find thus causing the runnability issues with the car. Be aware that a dealer has every right to void a vehicle's warranty over this very issue if it's determined the fuel purchased/used in the vehicle contains more than 10% ethanol.

The recommended fuel retailers according to BMW and a few other auto makers can be found here:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

here we go again... lol but im with you man.

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by ilidon

here we go again... lol but im with you man.

LOL.
Believe me .......... I debated whether to post or not ..... the dealer will play the warranty game over just about anything these days.

[Dwill335i]

Originally Posted by ToadHollow

93 octane rating isn't what you need to be concerned with when purchasing fuel ......... in your case, bad fuel. You need to purchase from manufacturers that are recommended by BMWNA as they have the lowest amounts (if any in some cases) of ethanol content in their fuel. Likely, you have been purchasing the cheapest 93 octane fuel you can find thus causing the runnability issues with the car. Be aware that a dealer has every right to void a vehicle's warranty over this very issue if it's determined the fuel purchased/used in the vehicle contains more than 10% ethanol AND is the cause to the failure of the vehicle/part.

The recommended fuel retailers according to BMW and a few other auto makers can be found here:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

I think that BMW denying warranty claims based on someone not using one of the gas stations on this list would be bogus. I'm sure there are a number of non-x35 BMW owners that use gas from places not on this list that never have problems. There are probably a large number of MB and other luxury or performance car owners that buy gas from other places that don't have any problems either. It doesn't seem right to say that people with a BMW with the N54 engine must buy gas from only those vendors on this list or risk a HPFP failure, while owners of any other car with any other engine are free to get gas wherever they can. True, if some place has really bad gas, it can mess up any engine in any car, and that undoubtedly happens. Also, I believe that most new car warranties in the last few years have the clause about greater than 10% ethanol, so that's not new either.

I'm a bit wary of the claim that using only gas from the vendors on this "top tier" list will prevent HPFP failures. Has it ever been confirmed that people who only use gas from these vendors have never had a failure? What about drivers who put gas from other vendors in their 335 and have never had a failure? I'm sure they are out there.

My feeling is that, as a manufacturer that sells a lot of cars in the US, BMW is responsible for ensuring that they understand the quality and specifications of gasoline sold in the US and designing their cars to work reliably with said gas. I, as an owner of a 335, shouldn't be responsible for running sample from whatever gas station that I choose to go to through a lab to ensure that it really is at least 93 octane, or really has no more that 10.0000% ethanol, like it says on the pump.

BMW needs to find the problem with the HPFP failures and fix it, not hide behind stuff like "you need to only buy gas from these vendors, in a month with a R in it, only when there is a full moon, etc. or it's your own fault that the pump failed".

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by Dwill335i

I think that BMW denying warranty claims based on someone not using one of the gas stations on this list would be bogus. I'm sure there are a number of non-x35 BMW owners that use gas from places not on this list that never have problems. There are probably a large number of MB and other luxury or performance car owners that buy gas from other places that don't have any problems either. It doesn't seem right to say that people with a BMW with the N54 engine must buy gas from only those vendors on this list or risk a HPFP failure, while owners of any other car with any other engine are free to get gas wherever they can. True, if some place has really bad gas, it can mess up any engine in any car, and that undoubtedly happens. Also, I believe that most new car warranties in the last few years have the clause about greater than 10% ethanol, so that's not new either.

I'm a bit wary of the claim that using only gas from the vendors on this "top tier" list will prevent HPFP failures. Has it ever been confirmed that people who only use gas from these vendors have never had a failure? What about drivers who put gas from other vendors in their 335 and have never had a failure? I'm sure they are out there.

My feeling is that, as a manufacturer that sells a lot of cars in the US, BMW is responsible for ensuring that they understand the quality and specifications of gasoline sold in the US and designing their cars to work reliably with said gas. I, as an owner of a 335, shouldn't be responsible for running sample from whatever gas station that I choose to go to through a lab to ensure that it really is at least 93 octane, or really has no more that 10.0000% ethanol, like it says on the pump.

BMW needs to find the problem with the HPFP failures and fix it, not hide behind stuff like "you need to only buy gas from these vendors, in a month with a R in it, only when there is a full moon, etc. or it's your own fault that the pump failed".

So my addiction to this forum continues and I'm feeling a bit edgey this morning ........... I hear where you're coming from so ..... take nothing personal, please.

I never said anything about the HPFP being safe as long as recommended fuel is used within the owner's car.

The point I wanted to make is that upon discovery (OR not) of an unacceptable amount ethanol content the dealer can and will at their discretion void a warranty if it can be shown the fuel is the cause of the failure of A part. Well known and documented problems with the HPFP negate fuel being a viable cause........... atleast in our eyes.

ANY time any of us brings our car into the dealer for runnability issues the fuel/ethanol content is one of the VERY FIRST things to be checked. If the ethanol level is found to be excessive THEN they have cause to blame the problem on that right off the bat. IMHO, a dealer will only go the "void" route if the car shows catastrophic failure AND the failure can be shown to be directly related to the ethanol content/poor fuel quality.

Next time you (or anyone else reading this and doubting) brings their BMW in for service ask about this fuel test. You'll find that the test itself is heavily relied upon by the dealer & BMWNA to explain away most runnability issues with our BMW ........... regardless of existing, documented or known issues.

The "Top Tier" list is being used by BMW along with GM, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Audi as a blanket excuse to explain away runnability issues and shift the blame to the owner of the vehicle. However, I don't use anything with ethanol in my car unless I absolutely don't have a choice. Just for the record, that has yet to be the case. In my area the Shell stations have posted on each pump of EVERY location/retailer that they're fuel contains NO ethanol. Why not use the retailers shown to be top tier? Unless the retailer isn't local to you then I see no reason not to choose who I purchase fuel from based on the list. No worries here.

Too many threads like this one that I have been a part of ........ it all boils down to this ...
Cover Your Ass.

As a side (and loosely connected to this subject) note .........
Although BMW advertises and sells us a vehicle with a 4 yr/50K warranty; take heed to common sense and their idea of "lifetime" fluids never needing to be changed. BMW's obligation to honor our factory warranty ends at precisely 4 yr/50K. At that point the "lifetime" fluids just became a part of your routine maintenance schedule. Also, does anyone here realize that the 15K oil change service is the bare MINIMUM and that the oil (even the synthetics) begin to break down @ half of that mileage? BMW makes the warranty sound great when in actuality they're doing the very minimum they can to keep your vehicle maintained while under their care. When it becomes YOUR turn to take care of the car ........ well, then some owners will wish they hadn't relied on so much of the nonsense BMW fed them ........

[ToadHollow]

Originally Posted by Takashi

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about and you might be mis-interpreting what the dealership is telling you.

Oh, try learning how to use proper punctuation. Not using any punctuation only shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Was that even necessary?

If so, then you have atleast 60% of this board to comment upon. I understand the point you're wanting to make but, being a bit more tactful in your approach would help. Not meaning to bash ......... just making a point.

For the record, misinterpreting.

[STOPpre]

For all those quoting ethanol as the problem:

The OP is from the Bronx. In New York ALL gasoline has 10% ethanol in it. Now that measurement probably isn't super accurate - but every gas pump in the state has a big sticker on it that says "Contains 10% Ethanol"

Secondly, the whole top-tier gasoline is bogus. All gasoline sold has to pass a minimum threshold that isn't far from their minimum specs.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...gas-usat_N.htm

"Their anxieties have lately been fueled by a $35 million Shell marketing campaign, warning that discount fuel is the petro-chemical equivalent of the road to hell."

The fact remains that he might have filled up at a station that did have a bad batch of gas. But it was drained by the dealer and then refilled and he claims the problem persists. The problem is obviously the engine and a dealership filled with low-lifes

Advice: Find a new dealership and take your car there. Unless you filled up with a gas/water blend to save money this is BMW's problem.

[bbbuzzy]

Toad Hollow......

PHP Code:

Why not use the retailers shown to be top tier? 


Many states mandate 10% ethanol in ALL fuel, Top Tier is not exempt. This has to be one of the biggest marketing scams in the automotive world. The gas is all from the same source at the start and then the retailers (TopTier or other vendors) add their detergents and ethanol and sell it. Nobody elses' cars are failing everyday from "bad gas". The BMW HPFP on the N54 engine must not be designed properly for the application. That's the simplest explanation. This problem will likely continue until a new pump is introduced. Continuing to replace the failed pump with the same part is ludicrous, albeit perhaps cheaper for BMW than designing and validating a new part. BMW should fix this problem, even if it costs more, to ensure their reputation remains good.

I'm glad I own a 330i, I'll wait on looking at the 335 until this problem is resolved.

[galahad05]

Top Tier has nothing to do with ethanol content. It has everything to do with additive package (i.e. Chevron Techron).

[Dwill335i]

Originally Posted by ToadHollow

So my addiction to this forum continues and I'm feeling a bit edgey this morning ........... I hear where you're coming from so ..... take nothing personal, please.

Sorry, didn't intend to get personal. I just think this "toptier gas" thing is bogus with regards to the problems the 335s are having. BMW just need to find and fix the problem.

[Partsdood]

The real issue isn't the ethanol itself, the problem is that ethanol absorbs water like a sponge. If the station has a lot of water in the tank, it gets carried into your car by the ethanol and causes corrosion. When MA first went over to 10% ethanol, we had a surge of bad fuel pumps from gas stations who hadn't cleaned their tanks properly before going over to the 10% ethanol.
The second issue is warranty...BMW dealers love warranty. We'd love to do warranty all day long! We get paid for warranty by BMW! The problem is that BMW only pays if certain procedures are followed. If not, the dealership eats the repair. If BMW says no HPFP, then no HPFP. Don't blame the dealers!

[lsdless]

My friend Erik Luchsinger who is a "Reginal Aftersales Operation Specialist" for BMW told me that 99% of the problems they are having with the HPFP has to do with the gas. I live in Atlanta and he said they QT is the best around here and that I should always buy my gas from there. He was telling me that when I first bought the car but I didn't know it was because of the Fuel pump, I thought it was just for the life of the engine. He also drives a 335i. (he could drive any BMW he wants but he prefers the 335i) Anyway he isn't connected with any dealer directly and he has no reason to make this up. Just find out what the best gas in your area is and buy from there and don't stray.