[Craigito]

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...ecocredit.aspx

[Xiaofeng]

Wow, that's a great deal! $4,500 off the MSRP plus $900 for the alternative fuel tax credit would make a brand new, equivalently spec'd 335d cheaper than what I paid for my 335xi 2 years ago! If this was available then, I would probably be driving around in the diesel right now!

[Saintor]

ecocredit my eye.

Try abysmal-sales-credit.

[Twilight1]

Originally Posted by Saintor

ecocredit my eye.

Try abysmal-sales-credit.

Probably correct. If the 335d is in stock you can start at invoice and then take the $4500 off.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Saintor

ecocredit my eye.

Try abysmal-sales-credit.

Spot on. The 335d wasn't around, but the 335's have gone up by 3600+ apples to apples from 2k7 to 2k9, identically equipped (maybe heated steering wheel is a 3600 bonus). Take a few thousand off and you are still worse off.

Next year looks like not only will the Logic 7 continue to be an option, but 2 more speakers are being removed from the rear shelf on the base stereo. Price going up, less equipment, marketers have to do something to lure the newbies into buying.

[Twilight1]

A re-mapped 335d for 35K is quite a performance bargain in my estimation.

Premium diesel around me is cheaper than gas premium and I got 44 mpg on a trip yesterday and I only have 650 miles on the car.

I certainly wouldn't pay 45-55K for any 3-series except the M3.

[Xiaofeng]

Abysmal sales or not, this is still a nice deal, so I fail to see why people are being so critical of it. The chief complaint I kept hearing from people when BMWNA brought the car to the US was that it was overpriced, and should have been positioned between the 328i and the 335i. Well, guess what? With the $5400 in extra savings, that's exactly where the 335d now sits.

Besides, the primary reason why diesels aren't selling is because Americans can't get over their stigmata of the noisy, dirty, pieces of $#!+ that Detroit pushes out. As a daily driver, the 335d would be a phenomenal car.

265 hp + 425 lb.ft. + 40 MPG = Win, no matter how you slice it.

[Joeb427]

Originally Posted by Xiaofeng

Abysmal sales or not, this is still a nice deal, so I fail to see why people are being so critical of it. The chief complaint I kept hearing from people when BMWNA brought the car to the US was that it was overpriced, and should have been positioned between the 328i and the 335i. Well, guess what? With the $5400 in extra savings, that's exactly where the 335d now sits.

Besides, the primary reason why diesels aren't selling is because Americans can't get over their stigmata of the noisy, dirty, pieces of $#!+ that Detroit pushes out. As a daily driver, the 335d would be a phenomenal car.

265 hp + 425 lb.ft. + 40 MPG = Win, no matter how you slice it.

The $4500 off helps but the 335d is still not really positioned in between the 328 and 335..
The 335d listed for $3600 more than the 335i to begin with.

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by Xiaofeng

265 hp + 425 lb.ft. + 40 MPG = Win, no matter how you slice it.

Diesel + porky weight+ dull behavior = Fail, no matter how you slice it.

Let diesels to tractors, where they belong.

I have a fair experience with modern diesels, thank you.

[carrabassett786]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Diesel + porky weight+ dull behavior = Fail, no matter how you slice it.

Let diesels to tractors, where they belong.

I have a fair experience with modern diesels, thank you.

Don't bash it until you've tried it. If BMW had launched with ZSP cars I think that with these incentives, even with the Steptragic I would be tempted.

[Xipher]

Does this incentive apply to diesels in Canada?

[Xiaofeng]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Diesel + porky weight+ dull behavior = Fail, no matter how you slice it.

Porky weight? The 335d weighs roughly the same as the 335xi, or about 200 lbs more than a 335i. This is more a testament to the 335i than a bash against the 335d. In comparison, an Audi 3.2 FSI and a Infiniti G37x also weigh about the same. Besides, a single average-sized passenger in your car will likely impact the handling just as much as the extra distributed weight the 335d is carrying.

Dull? An engine that produces 425 lb.ft. of torque at a measly 1750 RPM is dull? Having a diesel that, with a simple flash, can cross the 1/4 mile in 13 seconds is dull? Are you feeling okay there, buddy?


Don't get me wrong, I love the 335i and the N54B30, and on the track, the 335d wouldn't stand very much of a chance. However, the 335d is no slouch either,, especially when it comes to daily driving on the streets. You may have some experience with "modern diesels", but I assure you, that Jetta 2.0 TDI, John Deere tractor, or whatever you may have driven can't hold a candle to the 335d.

I challenge you to go to your local dealer, with an open mind, and test drive one. You owe it to yourself, and who knows, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Originally Posted by Xipher

Does this incentive apply to diesels in Canada?

I don't believe so, Xipher. I think this is a BMWNA offer only.

[Redadair]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Diesel + porky weight+ dull behavior = Fail, no matter how you slice it.

Let diesels to tractors, where they belong.

I have a fair experience with modern diesels, thank you.

You are grossly mistaken on your comments about the 335d. I drove it, the car feels very much like our 335i with more torque. Very fast no Old Diesel sound at all. Truly a fabulous car. If I were in the market to buy new it would surely be on my list. I just sold my 05 Jetta Diesel, now that car was a bit loud but still a good car that got over 40 mpg.

Sorry but its people like you that is the reason that Diesels aren't the dominant sellers in the US as they are around the rest of the world.

Red

[Saintor]

*Again* I have a fair amount of experience with modern diesels. Including the 335d, which I autocrossed twice in a closed circuit.

No way this is progress.

BTW, diesel sales are down in relative % in Europe. People are getting annoyed of tractor engines.

[Xiaofeng]

*Again*, I'm confused as to why you're so critical of the 335d. "No way this is progress?" Compared to what? An Elise? Like you, I've driven my fair share of modern diesel vehicles, and compared to every single other diesel I've driven, I honestly think the 335d is heads and shoulders above them all. How is that not progress?

If you'll pardon me, I think you're losing perspective on the issue here. Nobody said the 335d was the perfect car. Nobody said it was better than the 335i. Nobody said it was the best track or autocross vehicle. However, when it comes to diesels, I dare say it's the best car in America right now.

Besides, if you're looking for an autocross car, the 335i isn't all that great either. Give me a Eurosport Twin Screw E36 M3 instead.

[amdmaxx]

^^^ What she/she said!
335d is amazing!

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by Saintor

*Again* I have a fair amount of experience with modern diesels. Including the 335d, which I autocrossed twice in a closed circuit.

No way this is progress.

BTW, diesel sales are down in relative % in Europe. People are getting annoyed of tractor engines.

Same old record.

You sound like King Canute. Water is lapping around your ankles now .....

D.

[Saintor]

"No way this is progress?" Compared to what?

Compared to your typical gas-E90 obviously.

Tractor engines with 4500rpm redline (or so) and with horrible noise are NOT FUN. They just impress gadget lovers and serve no purpose.

[Xiaofeng]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Compared to your typical gas-E90 obviously.

Tractor engines with 4500rpm redline (or so) and with horrible noise are NOT FUN. They just impress gadget lovers and serve no purpose.

You've got tractors on the brain there, Saintor. In case you forgot, we were talking about sporty sedans.

By the way, the 335d redlines at 5000 RPM, not 4500. As for "serving no purpose", find me another production car in America that offers this level of performance while returning up to 40+ MPG. You can't. How does that not serve a purpose?

You keep comparing the 335d to the 335i, yet you fail to realize that the 335i also happens to be the benchmark for all cars in its class, regardless of engine type, so of course the 335d is going to lose a little bit of its luster. You're tunnel vision is preventing you from seeing the big picture. All in all, it just boils back down to what I said in my first rebuttal: Americans dislike diesels because they're too stubborn to forget about the soot-spewing POS rattle-boxes that Detroit makes.

You've already convinced yourself that the word diesel is a synonym for tractor, so there's no real point in going in circles any more. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's a shame really, because if you take a step back and look at the whole field, you'll find that this "tractor" really is a gem.

[akhter]

Originally Posted by Saintor

*Again* I have a fair amount of experience with modern diesels. Including the 335d, which I autocrossed twice in a closed circuit.

No way this is progress.

BTW, diesel sales are down in relative % in Europe. People are getting annoyed of tractor engines.

what a dumb and ignorant comment!

typical hillbilly attitude...

[John 070]

LOL the title of this thread is 4500 and 335d. But inevitably it becomes a my diesel is better than your gas thread again...

[fdsasdasdf]

Originally Posted by Xiaofeng

You've got tractors on the brain there, Saintor. In case you forgot, we were talking about sporty sedans.

By the way, the 335d redlines at 5000 RPM, not 4500. As for "serving no purpose", find me another production car in America that offers this level of performance while returning up to 40+ MPG. You can't. How does that not serve a purpose?

You keep comparing the 335d to the 335i, yet you fail to realize that the 335i also happens to be the benchmark for all cars in its class, regardless of engine type, so of course the 335d is going to lose a little bit of its luster. You're tunnel vision is preventing you from seeing the big picture. All in all, it just boils back down to what I said in my first rebuttal: Americans dislike diesels because they're too stubborn to forget about the soot-spewing POS rattle-boxes that Detroit makes.

You've already convinced yourself that the word diesel is a synonym for tractor, so there's no real point in going in circles any more. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's a shame really, because if you take a step back and look at the whole field, you'll find that this "tractor" really is a gem.

+1+1+1+1+1+1!