[MisterSkiMask]

Ok, with every new software update for the piggys we read, 'this is SOOO much better' much smoother, way less lag. How can this be? How bad were these things to begin with, and how bad are they now that they can be dramatically improved every two weeks?

[lawdude]

We used to hear that a new iteration was "buttery smooth". Nothing seems buttery smooth anymore.

Anyway, to answer your question, beware the butt dynos.

[roozie2001]

the piggies are not bad at all. As good as GIAC is and i can appreciate that, until they come out with stage 2+ i wont even be looking in that direction.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

Ok, with every new software update for the piggys we read, 'this is SOOO much better' much smoother, way less lag. How can this be? How bad were these things to begin with, and how bad are they now that they can be dramatically improved every two weeks?

Early ones without direct boost control were lacking in many respects. The tunes after that got much better. And the small incremental changes we make now can result in a large subjective difference to the Seat of the pants which is a far more sensitive device, in many ways, than a dyno.

With the PROcedes recent CANbus integration, we expect things to improve for years. That's what happens when you go from reading a handful of signals to a dozen to a hundred.

Shiv

[jpsimon]

I'm especially interested in lagfix2... get those maps finished up shiv!

[Terrance28]

The jb3 has come a long way. It use to be just raw power, but Terry has been smoothing it out and now it feels amazing.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

The jb3 has come a long way. It use to be just raw power, but Terry has been smoothing it out and now it feels amazing.

Do you feel that there is still room for substantial improvement? There is always room for improvement, I know, but is there still a roughness that you would like to see smoothed out?

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Early ones without direct boost control were lacking in many respects. The tunes after that got much better. And the small incremental changes we make now can result in a large subjective difference to the Seat of the pants which is a far more sensitive device, in many ways, than a dyno.

With the PROcedes recent CANbus integration, we expect things to improve for years. That's what happens when you go from reading a handful of signals to a dozen to a hundred.

Shiv

+1, yes you can always improve on the seat of the pants feel...but how much more power can we really expect, I think we have reached the limits of the stock turbo's right?

[mwahlert]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

+1, yes you can always improve on the seat of the pants feel...but how much more power can we really expect, I think we have reached the limits of the stock turbo's right?

i don't think the focus is really on peak power any more but it is far more day to day drivability that is now the main concern.

[jpsimon]

yeah there is no more secret power to be found in the turbos (only more power with meth at this point). Now it's just fine-tuning everything else.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by mwahlert

i don't think the focus is really on peak power any more but it is far more day to day drivability that is now the main concern.

I would agree with that, the dyno glory typically will inspire someone to buy a product, but the livability will get them to keep the product.

[Presidio335xi]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Early ones without direct boost control were lacking in many respects. The tunes after that got much better. And the small incremental changes we make now can result in a large subjective difference to the Seat of the pants which is a far more sensitive device, in many ways, than a dyno.

With the PROcedes recent CANbus integration, we expect things to improve for years. That's what happens when you go from reading a handful of signals to a dozen to a hundred.

Shiv

Before I ask my question I will preface it with Dinan is expensive and much slower than Vishnu's products.

Now that that is out of the way.....

So what you are saying is that your original product was lacking is many arenas? Does that include safety parameters? While I am not very technical in many ways when it comes to cars, as I have read like many other, about the evolution of your products into something that strikes me as very impressive today, it seems that your earlier products (while at the time we hailed as superior) couldn't possibly have been. I mean when Dinan says they recalibrated 2000 "things" "equations" or "processes" in the ECU, is that now what you are able to do. Or is that just sales talk and means very little? When you compare how your product can do things now the JB3 can’t dream of…that means you had two years of not being able to do the same thing. Or are all of the new features just allowing you to refine a product as opposed to filling in ‘holes’?

I am actually serious and not trying to be condescending at all. God knows when I buy another car to drive for work my guy is getting new turbo’s and whatever flash/piggy that is the best all around product with little care for longevity.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Presidio335xi

Before I ask my question I will preface it with Dinan is expensive and much slower than Vishnu's products.

Now that that is out of the way.....

So what you are saying is that your original product was lacking is many arenas? Does that include safety parameters? While I am not very technical in many ways when it comes to cars, as I have read like many other, about the evolution of your products into something that strikes me as very impressive today, it seems that your earlier products (while at the time we hailed as superior) couldn't possibly have been. I mean when Dinan says they recalibrated 2000 "things" "equations" or "processes" in the ECU, is that now what you are able to do. Or is that just sales talk and means very little? When you compare how your product can do things now the JB3 can’t dream of…that means you had two years of not being able to do the same thing. Or are all of the new features just allowing you to refine a product as opposed to filling in ‘holes’?

I am actually serious and not trying to be condescending at all. God knows when I buy another car to drive for work my guy is getting new turbo’s and whatever flash/piggy that is the best all around product with little care for longevity.

I don't think there was ever a point at which we didn't have a safety advantage over our competition. However, in the last few months since CANbus integration (a first for ANY tuning device that I know of), the advantage has grown by an order of magnitude. Some will argue that all that safety isn't necessary. Maybe or maybe not. But that's the nature of safety. You only need it when you need it

Shiv

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

The jb3 has come a long way. It use to be just raw power, but Terry has been smoothing it out and now it feels amazing.

+1. If you haven't driven 9A7_R6 you haven't driven a JB3 tuned car.

Mike

[Slidewayz]

2 little piggies went to market

[GeorgeSmooth]

I think in the marketing perspective the flashes are giving the pigs swine flu at the moment but I cannot think that one is better than the other if the tune is the same.

[chiaobaby]

Basically you have the extra $$$ you can try everything but some of us have a budget and need just the basics. I feel all the tunes are excellent its just what you want and what you need are two different things . If you want more options and features you have to shellout some more $$$.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by Presidio335xi

Before I ask my question I will preface it with Dinan is expensive and much slower than Vishnu's products.

Now that that is out of the way.....

So what you are saying is that your original product was lacking is many arenas? Does that include safety parameters?

I think the procede has improved continuously in drivability, user adjustability, and safety. There has been no pause in R&D and then beta releases, from my perspective.

We have got to remember when I was runinng map 1.45 (and loving it, by the way) the engine was relatively brand new and we all knew we were taking risks as early adopters (including longevity risks and having to invest additional $ as improvements came out).

The risk is much less now, but the fun is even better with more saftey features, user tunability, map stages for different bolt-on mod levels, and variables that allow for a more refined tune.

[discostick]

The popular piggybacks and even those that are not popular have been reliable for some time now. I think many of the new "safety features" are really designed to instill fear in those that don't have them, and persuade them to purchase a new piggyback.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by discostick

The popular piggybacks and even those that are not popular have been reliable for some time now. I think many of the new "safety features" are really designed to instill fear in those that don't have them, and persuade them to purchase a new piggyback.

Wouldn't it be way easier just to offer owners of competing tunes a discount?

[discostick]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Wouldn't it be way easier just to offer owners of competing tunes a discount?

It is easier to sell your existing customer base a new product than to win over customers who might be loyal to other products.

Customers who are using the JB3 for example are more likely to do their free update or try the GIAC flash tune which is completely new. They have avoided the V3 this long so its not likely they will switch now. On the other hand if you already have a Rev1 you have been indoctrinated in to the PROcede life and are more likely to upgrade to the Rev2 given compelling reasons. I believe many of the new features are designed to compel Rev1 users to upgrade.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by discostick

It is easier to sell your existing customer base a new product than to win over customers who might be loyal to other products.

Customers who are using the JB3 for example are more likely to do their free update or try the GIAC flash tune which is completely new. They have avoided the V3 this long so its not likely they will switch now. On the other hand if you already have a Rev1 you have been indoctrinated in to the PROcede life and are more likely to upgrade to the Rev2 given compelling reasons. I believe many of the new features are designed to compel Rev1 users to upgrade.

My mistake. I thought you meant he was trying to scare jb3 users into switching. Carry on.