[cstavaru]

According to Bimmerfile...

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2009/08/27...e-dct-is-near/

I just hate all this talking about costs...

[lawdude]

I'm gonna quote someone here:


"DAMN!"

[rubber_ducky]

If this turns out to be the case, that's very short-lived.

[Darth335]

I hope that is not true, DTC is an amazing transmission.

[citrixscu]

I read that somewhere as well. I guess we will have to see.

[Mr. 5]

This really sucks becuase I was seriously planning to take European delivery of my DCT M3 in 2011. The DCT is incredible!

[Buschy]

will jsut make a M3 NAv8 with DCT much more rare.

[mapezzul]

I don't expect the ///M3 DCT going anywhere- it has more to do with new offerings and the Z4. My source stated that much like how the SMG stayed on with the M5/6 the DCT will with the M3, it is a perfect match and the cost to performance is on par.

The big issue is with the newer motors and torque- to build a DCT for a high torque motor costs too much to warrant the performance, 1/2 a tenth of a second is not work $10k... is it?

The M5 and moving forward we will not see a DCT offered- there is a reason they went with an Auto in the X5/X6 ///M versions.

When I get more info I will update.

-M

[Buschy]

The x6 and 5 M do not shift fast at all, I would have to guess with that tranny your going to lose more then a half second.
you can feel that car shifting as if its just taking its time. I cant believe they didnt put a dual clutch in it.

[cstavaru]

You can't really expect a high-precision DCT being installed in the X5M and X6M mammoths. There is too much torque but more important the cars are too heavy and any transmission is overstressed by sudden acceleration changes in cars of that weight. Only a torque converter could handle such abuse. And the X5-M/X6-M are not really M cars anyway.

But, how about bringing back a single-clutch automated-manual aka SMG ? It already works on the 500Nm M5...it may be rawer but it may be more cost-effective.

[Inzane]

This whole thing would be a moot point if everyone would just learn to drive a bloody manual transmission!

[GreenPlease]

Talk of costs is hard to swallow when you consider that VW uses (and has used) DCTs accross their lineup for several years now. Talk of static torque is also hard to swallow when one considers that the M3's DCT is rated to 443lb/ft.

The move to ZF's 8spd AT wouldn't be bad. It offers integrated start/stop, has multiple gear lanes (can skip from 7th to 2nd without going 6,5,4,3), and is a pretty quick shifter.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by buschy

The x6 and 5 M do not shift fast at all, I would have to guess with that tranny your going to lose more then a half second.
you can feel that car shifting as if its just taking its time. I cant believe they didnt put a dual clutch in it.

They didn't put in a dual clutch b/c of the torque. Also, they shift with .05 of the DCT according to the engineers. The reason it does not seem as fast is b/c of cylinder deactivation which smoothes everything out so you are not fighting the torque. The engineers said that they were able to translate power and acceleration much better and readily with this.

Trust me when I tell you this thing can drive.

For all the X5/X6 ///M haters out there: Until you get the thing on a track and put it through its paces you have NO valid opinion. These vehicles can out drive most things on the road, hands down.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

Talk of costs is hard to swallow when you consider that VW uses (and has used) DCTs accross their lineup for several years now. Talk of static torque is also hard to swallow when one considers that the M3's DCT is rated to 443lb/ft.

The move to ZF's 8spd AT wouldn't be bad. It offers integrated start/stop, has multiple gear lanes (can skip from 7th to 2nd without going 6,5,4,3), and is a pretty quick shifter.

Has VW put that DSG in anything of value? No just 4 bangers, and they have not improved it in years- there is a reason.

The DCT in the M3 is rated to 443, but BMW will always have a ~20% buffer and that puts it at 360 or so, with many of the new motors in line will be over that, and the take rate in other markets has not been great in the 3er or even in the Z4 when you consider the price delta.

There is another transmission that is being considered but it is early in development and can be used in a wide variety of applications, and uses a new concept.

-As far as it goes my source has reiterated that the DCT was not long for the stay (excluding the M3), and that BMW is exploring other options and with 8 speeds across the board. He/she is not backing down and has given me enough proof to post it. (This source will remain anonymous)

Could the DCT be here for the next few years? I don't know but all I know it is not the long term solution BMW wants for the high power cars. Could we just see an F1 box for real...?

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Could the DCT be here for the next few years? I don't know but all I know it is not the long term solution BMW wants for the high power cars. Could we just see an F1 box for real...?

What is the difference between the F1 box and SMG or DCT ?

[F32Fleet]

Wow all that money on development going down the drain. Maybe BMW should shave 700 lbs of their cars and keep the DCT.

[stressdoc]

I am still holding onto hope that we will see a DCT in the 335 ZMP mid-year 03/10.

[jeffc31337]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Has VW put that DSG in anything of value? No just 4 bangers, and they have not improved it in years- there is a reason.

You are incorrect on several statements. Regardless if you think the 4 banger is worthless the DSG has been mated to the 3.2 liter v6 in several models though that not a high torque motor. There are lot of chipped/stage2 2.0Ts running near or over 300 ft lbs of wheel torque and larger turbo DSGs running more. Note that the tranverse unit is rated at 258lbft so many cars are putting down much more torque to the pavement than the DSG is even rated for.

The new S4 has a brand new 7 speed DSG unit, anounced in march, which is a dry clutch unit, and rated by audi for up to 550NM(406 ft lbs) of torque. If it's anything like the tranverse 6 speed dsg it will be good for a lot more than that....

[GreenPlease]

Wow all that money on development going down the drain. Maybe BMW should shave 700 lbs of their cars and keep the DCT.

+1

You are incorrect on several statements. Regardless if you think the 4 banger is worthless the DSG has been mated to the 3.2 liter v6 in several models though that not a high torque motor. There are lot of chipped/stage2 2.0Ts running near or over 300 ft lbs of wheel torque and larger turbo DSGs running more. Note that the tranverse unit is rated at 258lbft so many cars are putting down much more torque to the pavement than the DSG is even rated for.

The new S4 has a brand new 7 speed DSG unit, anounced in march, which is a dry clutch unit, and rated by audi for up to 550NM(406 ft lbs) of torque. If it's anything like the tranverse 6 speed dsg it will be good for a lot more than that....

Yep. Pretty much the point I was trying to drive home. VW/Audi's actions seem to contradict what BMW says about DCT/DSG transmissions. I'll dig up the article on GCC and post later but I recall Audi stating that their 7 speed DSG would move across their entire longitudinal product line starting with the S4/S5.

[SouthCali335]

All you people that think the DCT is the shit should drive one for a couple of weeks, my buddy just got a E93 DCT M3 and is having a bunch of small issues with the DCT... In manual mode its great, but in normal modes on day to day driving its a pile that doesnt work right... There is like a 45 page thread somewhere about everyone complaining about their DCT's... And it works in the M3 right now cause the car does not produce any torque IMO

[Zeph]

As long as I have a MT available (currently 6MT) I could care less about all of the other shitty transmissions. I just want to DRIVE my car on the track/strip the fun is endless

[SouthCali335]

Originally Posted by Zeph

As long as I have a MT available (currently 6MT) I could care less about all of the other shitty transmissions. I just want to DRIVE my car on the track/strip the fun is endless

+1 I honestly don't know what kind of person would even consider an Auto M3... I mean besides with good luck reselling the car, everyone loves those cars in manual Like the E46's, you might as well try to get a Z06 in auto, its like the special olympics, even if you win... You're still re-tarded.