[///MML]

I have been a lurker on these forums for a while and following the 335's potential capability. As you guys are aware turbo cars give lots of options to build on. I have been following Shiv's updates and it looks impressive, however, I don't know him or am familiar with his past car work.

Ok,where an I going with this.... I must admit I am very suprisied by the level of dishonesty people are willing to tolarate for the sake of money. Everyone knows BMW will void your warranty for doing modifications (which is their right) since you voluntarly buy the car and agree to the terms. I am amazed that nearly everyone doing Shiv's mod are willing to do whatever it takes to hide this from BMW if there is a problem with their car. The question is why?

Life is a zero sum game guys, somebody pays no matter what. In fact we all pay since BMW must recoupe all costs and turn a profit. So if your car blows up we all pay the cost one way or the other. So why do the rest of us need to pay for your mod? Well we shouldn't. I know what your thinking, prove the mod caused it? This is a flase arguement as you changed the probability of error with the mod. This makes it your responsibility to find out the true cause, not just BMW. I realize BMW is no angel when it come to proving fault. I drive a e46 M3 and when motors were blowing due to a oil problem they blamed the customer at first but eventually made it right.

Many of you have bought shiv's mod want to be anonymous for fear of BMW finding out. Well I hate to tell you all information is public and they can find out if they want to, so don't fool yourself. They can take you to court an if you continue to lie then you get into perjury and felony charges, sounds like fun uh? For those of you who lease, you must sign a statement when you turn the car in saying you didn't mod the car. So don't think your getting away with something " not my car, it's leased".

I guess my last point is that if Shiv truely believed in his product he would warranty it like all upstanding manufactures. Nowhere have I read that he provides a warranty for probelms that his product creates. I heard alot about great customer sevice but if it blows will he pay the $10k for a new motor? I doubt it.... This is not to say Shiv is not a good person I'm just pointing out a common cause and effect fact.

Finally, I hope this didn't come across "holyier than thou" but just wanted point out some concerning attitudes amongst people who probably would be considered upstanding. If you owned a car business how your you feel if somebody was trying to trick you, probably not to good. For all of you who are fortunate to drive a $50k car don't try to cheat the system. Karma is a b*tch.

Good luck gentlemen...

[obLu]

Uh okay.

I think you're reading into it too much of your own personal context. Most of us are more than willing to fess up to a blown turbo or something similar ... at least I would. The game we're playing is the one that the dealer throws down; if dealers were really up front about magnuson (sp?) act then it wouldn't be an issue.

I think you'll find a lot of us are more trying to hide mods because we've had dealer experiences in the past where they've tried to deny warranty coverage on a completely unrelated part of the car than what was modded.

[obLu]

Finally, I hope this didn't come across "holyier than thou"

You did.

[ADHD]

WOW...this cracks me up!! come one bmw is not stupid.. this is there first car with not 1 but 2 turbos on the commercial line what who knows how many years later than other car manufacturers. Im pretty sure they took in account all the problems others where having and why they where having the problems, and perfected there own version of a turbod motor knowing that most manufactors report of blown engines due to modding and made the longblock capable of some leway..Im sure the motor is detuned to a degree as well.
U need to take in to consideration that one mods his car hes taking responsiblity just because people remain anononaoumous on here cause they shived there 335 doesnt mean there not going to take responsibilty

[NaViT]

i think he doesnt want fast 335s... ///MML this post of urs must mean uve never modded a car and never will right?

[e36jakeo]

Warranty stuff always gets dicey, and often comes down to interpretation. Mitsubishi was voiding warranties on Evos that they found out had been autocrossed. Evos are DESIGNED to be driven hard, yet when drivers did so (in a safe environment) they were at risk of losing their warranty. So they made sure to keep it quiet and cover their plates. Are they morally wrong for doing so? I don't think so.
If you take a stock 335i and take it to a fifty track days before the warranty is up I guaranty you that car will have a much greater chance of breaking than one with a XEDE reflash that is occasionally flogged on the street. What about someone who meticulously maintains a car but drives it hard vs. an owner of a dailer driver stock car who never changes the oil and puts in 87 octane (maybe diesel occasionally? )
I am against blatant dishonesty in cases where your mods do cause the car to break. The majority of modded cars they will coast through the warranty period with no problems, and BMW need not know the car was modded. For those that do have problems, who gets covered will be on a case-by-case basis.
Just FYI, For anyone getting the SHIV upgrade, I do recommend getting an oil cooler, since the car will run hotter (since it is making more power).

[kevkaz]

Originally Posted by ///MML

I have been a lurker on these forums for a while and following the 335's potential capability. As you guys are aware turbo cars give lots of options to build on. I have been following Shiv's updates and it looks impressive, however, I don't know him or am familiar with his past car work.

Ok,where an I going with this.... I must admit I am very suprisied by the level of dishonesty people are willing to tolarate for the sake of money. Everyone knows BMW will void your warranty for doing modifications (which is their right) since you voluntarly buy the car and agree to the terms. I am amazed that nearly everyone doing Shiv's mod are willing to do whatever it takes to hide this from BMW if there is a problem with their car. The question is why?

Life is a zero sum game guys, somebody pays no matter what. In fact we all pay since BMW must recoupe all costs and turn a profit. So if your car blows up we all pay the cost one way or the other. So why do the rest of us need to pay for your mod? Well we shouldn't. I know what your thinking, prove the mod caused it? This is a flase arguement as you changed the probability of error with the mod. This makes it your responsibility to find out the true cause, not just BMW. I realize BMW is no angel when it come to proving fault. I drive a e46 M3 and when motors were blowing due to a oil problem they blamed the customer at first but eventually made it right.

Many of you have bought shiv's mod want to be anonymous for fear of BMW finding out. Well I hate to tell you all information is public and they can find out if they want to, so don't fool yourself. They can take you to court an if you continue to lie then you get into perjury and felony charges, sounds like fun uh? For those of you who lease, you must sign a statement when you turn the car in saying you didn't mod the car. So don't think your getting away with something " not my car, it's leased".

I guess my last point is that if Shiv truely believed in his product he would warranty it like all upstanding manufactures. Nowhere have I read that he provides a warranty for probelms that his product creates. I heard alot about great customer sevice but if it blows will he pay the $10k for a new motor? I doubt it.... This is not to say Shiv is not a good person I'm just pointing out a common cause and effect fact.

Finally, I hope this didn't come across "holyier than thou" but just wanted point out some concerning attitudes amongst people who probably would be considered upstanding. If you owned a car business how your you feel if somebody was trying to trick you, probably not to good. For all of you who are fortunate to drive a $50k car don't try to cheat the system. Karma is a b*tch.

Good luck gentlemen...

... worst ... post... ever... !!!

[LOLrance]

Originally Posted by obLu

Uh okay.

I think you're reading into it too much of your own personal context. Most of us are more than willing to fess up to a blown turbo or something similar ... at least I would. The game we're playing is the one that the dealer throws down; if dealers were really up front about magnuson (sp?) act then it wouldn't be an issue.

I think you'll find a lot of us are more trying to hide mods because we've had dealer experiences in the past where they've tried to deny warranty coverage on a completely unrelated part of the car than what was modded.

+1

[Ado]

Originally Posted by ///MML

I have been a lurker on these forums for a while and following the 335's potential capability. As you guys are aware turbo cars give lots of options to build on. I have been following Shiv's updates and it looks impressive, however, I don't know him or am familiar with his past car work.

Ok,where an I going with this.... I must admit I am very suprisied by the level of dishonesty people are willing to tolarate for the sake of money. Everyone knows BMW will void your warranty for doing modifications (which is their right) since you voluntarly buy the car and agree to the terms. I am amazed that nearly everyone doing Shiv's mod are willing to do whatever it takes to hide this from BMW if there is a problem with their car. The question is why?

Life is a zero sum game guys, somebody pays no matter what. In fact we all pay since BMW must recoupe all costs and turn a profit. So if your car blows up we all pay the cost one way or the other. So why do the rest of us need to pay for your mod? Well we shouldn't. I know what your thinking, prove the mod caused it? This is a flase arguement as you changed the probability of error with the mod. This makes it your responsibility to find out the true cause, not just BMW. I realize BMW is no angel when it come to proving fault. I drive a e46 M3 and when motors were blowing due to a oil problem they blamed the customer at first but eventually made it right.

Many of you have bought shiv's mod want to be anonymous for fear of BMW finding out. Well I hate to tell you all information is public and they can find out if they want to, so don't fool yourself. They can take you to court an if you continue to lie then you get into perjury and felony charges, sounds like fun uh? For those of you who lease, you must sign a statement when you turn the car in saying you didn't mod the car. So don't think your getting away with something " not my car, it's leased".

I guess my last point is that if Shiv truely believed in his product he would warranty it like all upstanding manufactures. Nowhere have I read that he provides a warranty for probelms that his product creates. I heard alot about great customer sevice but if it blows will he pay the $10k for a new motor? I doubt it.... This is not to say Shiv is not a good person I'm just pointing out a common cause and effect fact.

Finally, I hope this didn't come across "holyier than thou" but just wanted point out some concerning attitudes amongst people who probably would be considered upstanding. If you owned a car business how your you feel if somebody was trying to trick you, probably not to good. For all of you who are fortunate to drive a $50k car don't try to cheat the system. Karma is a b*tch.

Good luck gentlemen...

I don't mind you paying for my mods

[youyou]

I think you guys are being a little hard on him...
He does prove a point.
I was and am still a little concerned about modding my car with the xede.
But I will do it anyways...

[BoLaS]

wow...

for someone that has been following the Vinshu tooning process so closely you've missed a lot of info... for starters the Xede systems design to be disconnected from the car is not for the 'oh crap i blew my motor reason' (u shouldnt even be driving the car if you think you will ever get it to this point ) it is primarily meant for being able to take the car into 'service' without problems... ie. oil changes etc... with the XEDE the car is actually running at a safer operating temperature and is getting better gas milleage... if it were up to me, and i owned a car dealer i'd be more interested into how i can put this product into future production vehicles than punish someone for doing it... it might even save the dealer in the long run (there has already been a case of a members 335i motor blowing and that was before the XEDE had even been implemented on ANY 335i ....if u want more info on that

next, obviously you dont know about Vinshu b/c u havent researched anything about them! Shiv appears in Car and Driver for crying out loud! Im sure you've glanced at the most recent issues about the 335i in that magazine and respected all the facts and opinions in it. Thus I think its safe to say that while the vinshutunning.com website has more than enough credibilty on the company and their past work, you seeing first hand what Vinshu is about on the 'infamous' car and driver would be a great educational enlightenment!

in the end though, Shiv is still a tuner, that being said, I feel he should not be held accountable for a blown motor. Hell, your the one that said I want it, put it in! He just did the work, Now if he installs the Xede and turn the motor over and it instantly blows, well thats a completely different story...

regardless, im strating to ramble, and your post was, well, time consuming at best, just sell your M and get a 335i and come join the party
if not, go be a grouch somewhere else

[ac2]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

Warranty stuff always gets dicey, and often comes down to interpretation. Mitsubishi was voiding warranties on Evos that they found out had been autocrossed. Evos are DESIGNED to be driven hard, yet when drivers did so (in a safe environment) they were at risk of losing their warranty. So they made sure to keep it quiet and cover their plates. Are they morally wrong for doing so? I don't think so.
If you take a stock 335i and take it to a fifty track days before the warranty is up I guaranty you that car will have a much greater chance of breaking than one with a XEDE reflash that is occasionally flogged on the street. What about someone who meticulously maintains a car but drives it hard vs. an owner of a dailer driver stock car who never changes the oil and puts in 87 octane (maybe diesel occasionally? )
I am against blatant dishonesty in cases where your mods do cause the car to break. The majority of modded cars they will coast through the warranty period with no problems, and BMW need not know the car was modded. For those that do have problems, who gets covered will be on a case-by-case basis.
Just FYI, For anyone getting the SHIV upgrade, I do recommend getting an oil cooler, since the car will run hotter (since it is making more power).

335i does come with an oil cooler.

[jwarea80]

Originally Posted by ///MML

Life is a zero sum game guys, somebody pays no matter what. In fact we all pay since BMW must recoupe all costs and turn a profit. So if your car blows up we all pay the cost one way or the other. So why do the rest of us need to pay for your mod? Well we shouldn't.

You don't think BMW has already accounted for this? I'm sure the price we're paying has already accounted for warranty costs to BMW. How can BMW survive as a business for so long if they never included the costs of warranty coverage into the prices of their cars? This is only one of the false beliefs/informations that you have in your post. If you would educate yourself instead of putting yourself on a pedestal, you might realize that your thinking might not reflect the truth. Use your head and take different perspectives to the matter before you spit out jibberish.

[EVO_S4]

cant believed somebody had time to write this crap

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by EVO_S4

cant believed somebody had time to write this crap

My thoughts exactly.

[carl_lazlo]

Originally Posted by Ado

I don't mind you paying for my mods

Hahahaha.... :rocks:

Flame on

[sstarch1]

Did the OP, or anyone else ever consider with all this talk of profits this and costs to the consumer that...

....How many more 335s BMW will sell BECAUSE of its tuning potential.

Give me a break.

[bnj]

It seems ///MML is right. A lot of boys are hiding their mods intentionally!!

I'm going to tune my 335i to 400whp being proud of it and telling it honestly if someone asks. It's not gonna blow the engine, and even if it did, what a good reason to throw in even more hard core engine internals or some 997 turbo VGT turbochargers. That's how you are supposed to use your money.

[sdiver68]

What about the dishonesty of BMW giving out press cars which "mysteriously" were boosted 1/2 psi more than customer cars?

[lawdude]

[QUOTE=///MML]

I guess my last point is that if Shiv truely believed in his product he would warranty it like all upstanding manufactures. Nowhere have I read that he provides a warranty for probelms that his product creates. I heard alot about great customer sevice but if it blows will he pay the $10k for a new motor? I doubt it.... This is not to say Shiv is not a good person I'm just pointing out a common cause and effect fact.

QUOTE]

I bet there is a warranty, just not the one you think should be available. I can think of a ton of performance mods. However, compared to the number of mods available, you could probably count on the fingers of one hand and still have digits left over the number of manufacturers that provide a warranty for everything from blown engines to purported contaminated MAF from excess oil used in certain air filters .

[dolby]

Who knew Ned Flanders drove a BMW???

[geoff2010]

I bet this is the same guy who blew up his STI motor after boosting it to 19PSI with stock internals... and everyone on the forum ratted him out to Subaru. He is just angry now