[Glowin]

After running autotune for the last month, with the default settings. I'm just stock except for the Procede on the latest public V4 maps and firmware. 6MT, running on 91 octane, stage 1 map.

What does the value of 6.2 tell me (in the main screen where your channels are showing)? My autotune aggression target is the default value of 2.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Glowin

After running autotune for the last month, with the default settings. I'm just stock except for the Procede on the latest public V4 maps and firmware. 6MT, running on 91 octane, stage 1 map.

What does the value of 6.2 tell me (in the main screen where your channels are showing)? My autotune aggression target is the default value of 2.

means your car is running extremely aggressively. It SHOULD cut boost and increase ignition correction drastically. I am running into the same issue....

[BrianMN]

I thought it was only 0-5?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

I thought it was only 0-5?

That's targeting; the actual aggression level can skyrocket. I remember on a dyno run before autotune was fully enabled, my aggression target hit in the 6's as well.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Glowin

After running autotune for the last month, with the default settings. I'm just stock except for the Procede on the latest public V4 maps and firmware. 6MT, running on 91 octane, stage 1 map.

What does the value of 6.2 tell me (in the main screen where your channels are showing)? My autotune aggression target is the default value of 2.

You should post your autotuned boost and ignition correction levels as well in order for us to make some sense of your high aggression target.

I can only assume that you are running the default stage 1 boost target of 13.5 psi?

FWIW I find it pretty hard to run beyond 12.5 psi on pump gas with my mostly stock setup, without experiencing some knock events, but even at that, my aggression target never went much beyond 2.

6 seems really high and indicative of a lot of knock going on.

Octane makes a huge difference.

[MKE_M3]

I thoutht that was the point of autotune, that if you are running too aggressive, it would make it more conservative. Why would the OP have to change anything?

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

I thoutht that was the point of autotune, that if you are running too aggressive, it would make it more conservative. Why would the OP have to change anything?

I totally agree.

[Joshboody]

autotune reacts instantly at WOT, but can take awhile to reach acceptable settings. For example if you WOT during the morning when temps are lowest with time inbetween WOT, and then ran the car hard during the day then aggression would be very high. It's difficult for me to autotune higher than 12psi also even in the winter (91oct). so starting out on map 1 is fairly aggressive for us otherwise stock with 91oct.

I would really like some on/off option for setting (boost and IC) corrections based on weather.

[OpenFlash]

Aggression level will range from 0 to 10. It represents instantaneous aggression. It's the average aggression (over several seconds of WOT) that the Procede controls and keeps in the desired range. It does this through relatively slow adjustments to boost and timing. Making it react faster and with bigger steps will make the system unstable. The OP doesnt need to change any tune settings. Just let autotuning do what it wants to do.

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Aggression level will range from 0 to 10. It represents instantaneous aggression. It's the average aggression (over several seconds of WOT) that the Procede controls and keeps in the desired range. It does this through relatively slow adjustments to boost and timing. Making it react faster and with bigger steps will make the system unstable. The OP doesnt need to change any tune settings. Just let autotuning do what it wants to do.

So Shiv, seeing 6 in the main screen after running the tune for a while, is no big deal then you're saying? I'm still not clear on how you interpreted my value...

And can it have anything to do with the partial throttle super lean AFR's I've been having regularly, which are still unresolved?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Glowin

So Shiv, seeing 6 in the main screen after running the tune for a while, is no big deal then you're saying? I'm still not clear on how you interpreted my value...

And can it have anything to do with the partial throttle super lean AFR's I've been having regularly, which are still unresolved?

It's not unusual to see instances where aggression goes that high momentarily. The running average is only several seconds long. So looking at a snapshot of aggression and saying "good" or "bad" is impossible. It seems as if this is a big point of confusion for those who don't understand how autotuning works. I can assure you that your aggression value is not constant at 6. If it were, it would constantly be detuning to the minimum boost value of 11psi.

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It's not unusual to see instances where aggression goes that high momentarily. The running average is only several seconds long. So looking at a snapshot of aggression and saying "good" or "bad" is impossible. It seems as if this is a big point of confusion for those who don't understand how autotuning works. I can assure you that your aggression value is not constant at 6. If it were, it would constantly be detuning to the minimum boost value of 11psi.

OK. But if it's instant, and the car's off, then why would it be that high? I had the car parked all day, turned on ignition, and plugged in the Procede and read that value. It wasn't like I was driving and looked over at it. That's how I read it both times. Car was off, ignition on.

So if I take a sample like 5 times of that value, after driving normally even (not WOT or aggressive), then look at the value, is there a number I should be around?

And let's say the 6 is true in fact, how do I know if I'm being detuned to 11 PSI? What other things should I look for? Given the fact I've been running lean on partial throttle now for two months, only when the Procede is running and car is warmed up (not in valet mode), and have no other codes or symptoms, I'm worried something else is going on. This is frustrating me I can't figure out what's wrong.

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Glowin

OK. But if it's instant, and the car's off, then why would it be that high? I had the car parked all day, turned on ignition, and plugged in the Procede and read that value. It wasn't like I was driving and looked over at it. That's how I read it both times. Car was off, ignition on.

Let me try to explain this. That aggression value only updates when the car is under boost. It essentially takes the running average of knock retard, during the last several seconds of max boost/WOT. It keep this value in memory until it goes under boost/wot and the updating continues. So seeing a value of 6 upon start-up means that the conditions during your last cummulative seconds of WOT/full boost running was too aggressive. This could have been earlier that morning. The night before. Or the past week.

So if I take a sample like 5 times of that value, after driving normally even (not WOT or aggressive), then look at the value, is there a number I should be around?

As explained above, this aggression value does NOT update unless you are at WOT/full boost.

And let's say the 6 is true in fact, how do I know if I'm being detuned to 11 PSI? What other things should I look for? Given the fact I've been running lean on partial throttle now for two months, only when the Procede is running and car is warmed up (not in valet mode), and have no other codes or symptoms, I'm worried something else is going on. This is frustrating me I can't figure out what's wrong.

You can see what boost the Procede is autotuning to by just looking at the in-dash boost gauge. Specifically, the boost value seen at WOT between 5000-5500rpm.

-C

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

Let me try to explain this. That aggression value only updates when the car is under boost. It essentially takes the running average of knock retard, during the last several seconds of max boost/WOT. It keep this value in memory until it goes under boost/wot and the updating continues. So seeing a value of 6 upon start-up means that the conditions during your last cummulative seconds of WOT/full boost running was too aggressive. This could have been earlier that morning. The night before. Or the past week.

As explained above, this aggression value does NOT update unless you are at WOT/full boost.

-C

Hi Calvin, I've read your post a couple of times now, and I think I'm understanding things better. Thanks.

I read this post of Shiv's also, from today:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

For reference, us 91oct guys, running just 14-15psi will see average knock ramp quickly from the default autotuning target of ~2 to a very aggressive 4-5 once timing correction is eliminated. Which would be 2 to 2.5 times more knock retard.

From what a few people above have said, and if I'm understanding things correctly, then if I have that high a value recorded on the main screen, after multiple WOT pulls, wouldn't the conclusion be that even the default settings in my car for some reason are just too aggressive, and are creating knock?

How can I prove if that's the case or not?

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Also, (pardon my ignorance), do you get knock mainly if you run rich, or lean, or if that doesn't determine it, which other general conditions cause it so I can find out if I've been having knock or not? As you read from my posts above, for the last couple of months, my car on partial throttle has been running lean AFR's of like 17 to 20, so I'm wondering if that is creating knock? (although it wouldn't update the aggression value I suppose, if that's being updated only during WOT)

Thanks for helping me understand better! Shiv told me a while back that it's not a big deal what I'm experiencing, but it's becoming a bit of a PITA to deal with as it affects drivability at times, so I've gotta call you guys to get this thing figured out.

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PS I think he told me you guys removed the Leanrun fault condition feature from the recent maps, is that correct? I'm curious if it would have tripped in my case, since it was described as:

If AFR ever goes leaner than the desired threshold, it triggers a self-protective valet mode accompanied by a single SES light flash every 5 seconds indicating a Leanrun fault condition.
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[Glowin]

Calvin / Shiv, I know you guys have been busy the last week, but any chance you can review the above?

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Calvin / Shiv, I know you guys have been busy the last week, but any chance you can review the above?

Knock is generally a result of either too much ignition advance or lack of octane, or a combination of both.

I wouldn't worry too much about partial throttle AFR's...but it would be good if Shiv/Calvin/Adrian can confirm this:

Do the parameters, "Actual AFR Bank 1", and "Actual AFR Bank 2" show TRUE AFR or is it the DME Percieved AFR (with the biasing taking place)

The reason I/we are still unsure about this value is because the those AFR datalogs always show a lean spike a second after the onset of WOT/Boost. I remember someone said it was AFR with the additional biasing, but then Shiv at one point said it was exactly what a wideband o2 sensor would read.

[Glowin]

Good points about the AFR. I also am curious about the various sources of AFR, and how to read/interpret them.

There's the AFR channel you can log in the Procede, vs. the individual AFR banks (that should be the same values, otherwise it would point to faulty O2 sensors). And then there's the AFR gauge showing in the oil temp gauge, and where that's getting its info from.

You'd expect that the AFR channel should be the same as what the two AFR banks show (I've superimposed them on each other), but that's not the case from what I can see in my log.

I took it starting at zero speed, accelerated to second gear, got lean AFR, and then backed off the throttle, then accelerated, backed off, accelerated, etc. It was a slight uphill grade, where I find it happens the most (though it happens on flat roads as well).

If the oil temp gauge is showing the AFR channel, and assuming that's not always accurate (vs. AFR banks), then I could ignore it but the problem is when it goes really lean, the car stutters, as if it really IS starving for fuel, and then I back off the gas, press the gas again, and it's better. The AFR spikes during the period where I'm pressing the throttle. So it's not just in my head...

And to make matters worse/more complicated, I've gone back to the 6-16 maps, and they don't cause these issues...
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