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      12-09-2010, 01:47 PM   #1
Mac B
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F10 keyless problem

I took delivery of a new 530D SE last week - I am generally very pleased with it, but I have discovered a very worrying problem:
It is possible to forget to stop the engine when leaving the car then lock it with the "key" and walk away leaving the engine running (not possible with a conventional ignition key where you have to switch the engine off in order to get the key out). There is not even a warning beep.
There are two obvious conseqences:
1. In Britain it is against the law to leave a car unattended with the engine running on a public road (The Road Traffic Act refers to it as "quitting"), so there is the risk of prosecution.
2. When away from the car for a substantial length of time, which in my case could often be for a whole day or more, there would undoubtedly be engine damage.

Nobody at the supplying dealer was aware of the problem (they thought until I demonstrated otherwise that the engine would stop once the "key" was out of range), so they contacted BMW UK, who confirmed that this was a characteristic of the car which could not be altered. They suggested that the only solution was to be careful not to forget! Obviously they are not expecting people over 50 to buy their cars.

Am I alone in thinking this is potentially a very serious and costly design fault?
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      12-09-2010, 04:18 PM   #2
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Happened to me a few days ago. I was distracted or it was too noisy, or my turn-off-car routine hadn't been established enough, I came back an hour later and heard the slight murmur - then i went Oh S***
But thank god it was only an hour, otherwise I would be really worried now..
I don't know about the mechanics or electronics of leaving your car idling for a long period of time, but it cant be good for it..
But i think you'll only normally make this mistake once, cuz it hurts and you''ll be extra careful thereafter.
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      12-09-2010, 09:08 PM   #3
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What about if u leave the car with unlock doors, can people just walk in n put their foot on the brake n start the car while pressing the START button n steal the car ????????
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      12-10-2010, 04:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post
What about if u leave the car with unlock doors, can people just walk in n put their foot on the brake n start the car while pressing the START button n steal the car ????????
No, the "key" has to be within the car for the engine to be started
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      12-17-2010, 06:33 AM   #5
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Just had a 740d on loan for a week and it had the same issue in that you could leave it running and lock it which thought was great for defrosting on my drive but I have a 520 on order and I bet I leave it running at some stage.
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      01-24-2011, 01:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Fin View Post
Just had a 740d on loan for a week and it had the same issue in that you could leave it running and lock it which thought was great for defrosting on my drive but I have a 520 on order and I bet I leave it running at some stage.
Walked past a locked, empty F10 520D parked on the street near a theatre in Leeds on Saturday night - guess what, the engine was running. Very likely the driver would be away for 3 hours or so. Beat coppers are very rare these days so little chance of him being done, but I'm glad it wasn't my engine ticking over for a few hours.
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      01-25-2011, 06:59 AM   #7
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Thats a serious flaw... my wife is going to forever be doing this!!

I can see the benefit on a cold morning having the engine running to warm it through - but surely there needs to be a cut out timewise on it?
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      01-25-2011, 03:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
I don't know about the mechanics or electronics of leaving your car idling for a long period of time, but it cant be good for it.
You're absolutely right. Quite apart from the obvious waste of fuel, when a petrol or diesel engine idles for prolonged periods, the engine oil becomes contaminated more quickly than when the vehicle is being driven. Oil contamination is more prevalent in diesel engines because of the large amount of intake air used in the diesel combustion cycle. When idling at low revs the excess air in the combustion process cools the cylinder liners, resulting in incomplete combustion and condensation of unburned fuel on the cylinder walls, all due to reduced thermal efficiency. These deposits are eventually drawn into the engine sump where they contaminate the engine oil and reduce its effectiveness as a lubricant.
Therefore, if you find yourself doing this often, I would strongly recommend more frequent oil and filter changes.
Additionally the engine cooling system will be overworked due to the lack of forward motion air flow through the radiator, oil cooler, turbo intercooler and generally around the whole engine.
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      01-26-2011, 07:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCUK View Post
Thats a serious flaw... my wife is going to forever be doing this!!

I can see the benefit on a cold morning having the engine running to warm it through - but surely there needs to be a cut out timewise on it?
Has anybody taken this serious flaw up with BMW? Perhaps there is a way to prevent this happening.
Meanwhile I am being very careful - as I mentioned earlier, I can often leave the car for a day or more.
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      01-26-2011, 08:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac B View Post
Has anybody taken this serious flaw up with BMW? Perhaps there is a way to prevent this happening.
Meanwhile I am being very careful - as I mentioned earlier, I can often leave the car for a day or more.

sounds like we have a volunteer

......seriously though, if your local dealer is half decent the master tech down there should be happy enough to at least listen to the question and look into it for you.
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      01-26-2011, 09:29 AM   #11
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My local dealer only smiles when he sees my credit card - looks rather vacant otherwise!

Not seen this mentioned anywhere else on the site mind - the car's engine keeping on running.
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      01-26-2011, 11:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCUK View Post
My local dealer only smiles when he sees my credit card - looks rather vacant otherwise!

Not seen this mentioned anywhere else on the site mind - the car's engine keeping on running.
This is only a problem if you forget to press the "Stop/Start Engine" button - but it's easy to do because there is no ignition key to remove, and there is no warning bleep (such as you get if you leave the lights on).

I did take this up with my BMW dealer - at first they said the engine should cut off when you walked out of range with the remote control but when this was demonstrated not to happen they said it now seemed to be like this on all current models.
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      01-26-2011, 12:26 PM   #13
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Im just thinking that coming home one night.. park car on driveway, get distracted by little one... and leave car running all night by mistake!

I wonder how much easier this makes the car to steal if its engine is on? Just back it up onto a recovery truck and drive it away... hmm.
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      01-26-2011, 06:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCUK View Post
Im just thinking that coming home one night.. park car on driveway, get distracted by little one... and leave car running all night by mistake!

I wonder how much easier this makes the car to steal if its engine is on? Just back it up onto a recovery truck and drive it away... hmm.
Please can you define "get distracted by little one"?
Are you referring to measures of intoxicating liquor or mind altering substances? In which case, I would suggest that you switch off before turning on .
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      01-26-2011, 06:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac B View Post
Am I alone in thinking this is potentially a very serious and costly design fault?
Evidently not, but it would appear that you're one amongst a very small contingent who are concerned and I would query it as being, in your words: "a very serious and costly design fault".
For goodness sake, just press that big 'Engine on/off' button to the left of the steering wheel and if you're still aurally unsure as to what's happening on your planet, have a look at the big dial next to the one which tells you how slow you're going. If it suddenly drops to zero when you switch off, it means the engine is no longer running .
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      01-27-2011, 04:21 AM   #16
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Nah.. 'little one' is 2 1/2 yrs old ,,, about 2 1/2 ft tall... and makes a LOT of mess!

Ie .. my son.
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      01-27-2011, 10:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Evidently not, but it would appear that you're one amongst a very small contingent who are concerned and I would query it as being, in your words: "a very serious and costly design fault".
For goodness sake, just press that big 'Engine on/off' button to the left of the steering wheel and if you're still aurally unsure as to what's happening on your planet, have a look at the big dial next to the one which tells you how slow you're going. If it suddenly drops to zero when you switch off, it means the engine is no longer running .
You'll be old one day
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      01-27-2011, 11:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mac B View Post
You'll be old one day
That depends on what you class as 'old'. I'm 62, but I really can't imagine walking away from a car and leaving the engine running unless I lose just about all my few remaining faculties. However, now I've tempted fate, it'll probably happen to me next. If and when that occurs, I promise to share my embarrassment .
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      01-27-2011, 11:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
That depends on what you class as 'old'. I'm 62, but I really can't imagine walking away from a car and leaving the engine running unless I lose just about all my few remaining faculties. However, now I've tempted fate, it'll probably happen to me next. If and when that occurs, I promise to share my embarrassment .
loss of faculty can occur not only due to old age.. pops
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      01-28-2011, 12:13 AM   #20
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I wouldn't class myself as old, I'm only 30, but yesterday in Sainsburys car park I left my F11 running, locked while I went for coffee with some colleagues.... It is really easy to do.... Be warned.... I do wonder what the insurance company would say, some little scum bag walks by thinks I want a BMW for a few hours, window gets put through off he goes, goes round a corner bag into a tree writes off 1 week old f11. Insurance say sorry you effectively left the keys in the ignition were not paying.... I don't think some how either BMW UK or your dealer is going to dig deep and pay.......
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      01-28-2011, 02:10 AM   #21
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Have to agree. This is really easy to do. Anything that disturbs your normal parking routine could see you fall foul of this design flaw - the phone ringing, kids hollering, pretty woman walking by....etc

In my old car, I'd regularly get out at the train station, still sleep-dopey at 6am with the ignition running - forunately I needed to retrieve the key to lock the doors so no drama.

On the insurance point, I think policies state they are invalid if you have left the key in the vehicle. No doubt that will be changing to include engine running also.

Last edited by Shake n Bake; 01-28-2011 at 09:28 AM..
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      01-28-2011, 03:56 AM   #22
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Thinking about the insurance bit .... gues as you would have the key in your possession they would not (and you would not) know u left the car running.

Time for an experiment!!
Anyone willing to start their engine .. then get out with the key in their possession ... and let a mate drive it down the road to see if he can - and how far he gets? Curious as to whether the car will drive - or whether it just 'runs'
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