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      01-18-2011, 03:36 AM   #1
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Still no weight numbers?

The only rumors I have read is that despite being slightly larger the new 3er will actually be lighter than the existing car. To me the weight of the new 3er answers a very important question about how serious BMW is getting about weight management.
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Last edited by swamp2; 01-18-2011 at 02:09 PM..
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      01-18-2011, 08:27 AM   #2
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It will not be lighter it will be be heavier or similar. The lighter car will only be due to a smaller motor.
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      01-18-2011, 10:30 AM   #3
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the car is getting bigger. It will not be lighter.
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      01-18-2011, 02:08 PM   #4
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I know the car is larger and typically that is a guaranteed death sentence for the prospect of being lighter. That being said BMW is getting more and more serious about efficiency, emissions and weight. All part of their "Efficient Dynamics" efforts. I also read in a web article (link here, agreed not the best inside information type of source...) that the car will be lighter (apples to appples on the models). I honestly think there is a chance the car might be lighter. Also I am looking for solid rumors or actual rumored numbers more so than opinion .
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      01-18-2011, 05:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I know the car is larger and typically that is a guaranteed death sentence for the prospect of being lighter. That being said BMW is getting more and more serious about efficiency, emissions and weight. All part of their "Efficient Dynamics" efforts. I also read in a web article (link here, agreed not the best inside information type of source...) that the car will be lighter (apples to appples on the models). I honestly think there is a chance the car might be lighter. Also I am looking for solid rumors or actual rumored numbers more so than opinion .
Well maybe.

Lightness also has to do with the materials used.

If BMW is willing to go the expensive route like the Porsche Panamera (v6) (100 KG heavier than the 335i), then they need to use magnesium and lots of aluminum.

The problem is that magnesium alloys are EXPENSIVE.

and BMW likes to cost cut, ...esp at the level of the 3 series; thats why the Panamera is only 100 KG heavier than the 335i e90...its because the 335i is simply too heavy, it doesn't have cutting edge materials -- but then the Panamera is twice the price of a 335i...and more if you get the larger engined cars -- you start to see where the money is going.

You can see why the 300 HP/300 torque V6 is plenty in the Panamera, the damn cruiser is light.

I do believe the current 335i is too heavy, it feels slow from a dig...by that I mean it feels slow to get up from a stop, it has a lot of torque, but a lot of weight. And nothing can make a heavy car nimble, no amount of torque.
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      01-18-2011, 05:24 PM   #6
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It's unfortunate they're going the direction of Audi with its huge new A4 and going bigger. The cars are a great size right now. I don't feel like my E90 needs any more room to be comfortable. It's easy to parallel park, and there's plenty of room for passengers. That's what the 5-series is for, more space and luxury. The 3 should be the nimble mid-size sports sedan it's always been. Not a large sedan.

Are they trying to make the 1 series more competitive? It's really too awkward looking to fill a hole left by a bigger 3 series, and there's no 4-door.

If the next gen was the same exact size, but a few hundred pounds lighter... that would be a great achievement IMO.
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      01-18-2011, 05:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
Well maybe.

Lightness also has to do with the materials used.

If BMW is willing to go the expensive route like the Porsche Panamera (v6) (100 KG heavier than the 335i), then they need to use magnesium and lots of aluminum.

The problem is that magnesium alloys are EXPENSIVE.

and BMW likes to cost cut, ...esp at the level of the 3 series; thats why the Panamera is only 100 KG heavier than the 335i e90...its because the 335i is simply too heavy, it doesn't have cutting edge materials -- but then the Panamera is twice the price of a 335i...and more if you get the larger engined cars -- you start to see where the money is going.

You can see why the 300 HP/300 torque V6 is plenty in the Panamera, the damn cruiser is light.

I do believe the current 335i is too heavy, it feels slow from a dig...by that I mean it feels slow to get up from a stop, it has a lot of torque, but a lot of weight. And nothing can make a heavy car nimble, no amount of torque.
Yes, pretty much agree all around. You can though get savings from both materials and design. Many components can be made hollow and it they are engine or drivetrain components those help with performance as well (at a higher cost though typically, depending on how the part is manufactured). On the material front BMW is increasing its use of high strength steels and these also contribute to weight reductions. Some years back BMW also bought a specialized composites factory capable of medium production volume CF components. Many of those will be reserved for the M series but some (perhaps some less expensive composites) will be in the 3er. We will see, I'm so darn curious to know this. I wish there was some more information available.
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      01-18-2011, 05:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiv808 View Post
It's unfortunate they're going the direction of Audi with its huge new A4 and going bigger. The cars are a great size right now. I don't feel like my E90 needs any more room to be comfortable. It's easy to parallel park, and there's plenty of room for passengers. That's what the 5-series is for, more space and luxury. The 3 should be the nimble mid-size sports sedan it's always been. Not a large sedan.

Are they trying to make the 1 series more competitive? It's really too awkward looking to fill a hole left by a bigger 3 series, and there's no 4-door.

If the next gen was the same exact size, but a few hundred pounds lighter... that would be a great achievement IMO.
A big +1 on your last point.

Anyway the days of just a 3,5 and 7, with the 3er being a small/entry level offering are long gone. The trend across the industry, BMW and others, for a long time has been larger, larger, larger (while amazingly enough also delivering better efficiency and emissions). The super-sizing then leaves room for new smaller models. I guess you have heard that BMW is also planning a 2 series. There we have it Mini, 1, 2, 3, 4 (Z4), 5, 6, 7 along with X1, X3, X5 and X6.
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      01-21-2011, 11:49 AM   #9
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what is the weight difference between the old 5 and new one. that should give you a clue
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      01-21-2011, 11:58 AM   #10
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BMW 528 2011
Curb Weight: 3,814 lbs.

BMW 528 2009
curb weight: 3505 lbs.

Both from Automobile Magazine
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      01-21-2011, 12:34 PM   #11
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I guess its the crash safety issue what makes the cars heavier. And all that standard equipement like electric windows, seats , soft-close doors etc etc.
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      01-21-2011, 05:25 PM   #12
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Just weight for the Z2M. <1000Kilos !
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      01-21-2011, 05:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
what is the weight difference between the old 5 and new one. that should give you a clue
I've seen those numbers as well as the disappointing figure for the new M5. That being said I'm not sure what the 5er is doing is a bellwether for what the 3er will do. The large volume of the 3er makes it a more important vehicle to make more green. It is also a newer model. If the new car is not lighter I'd bet its similarity to the current model is much more than compared to the 5er.
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      01-21-2011, 08:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I've seen those numbers as well as the disappointing figure for the new M5. That being said I'm not sure what the 5er is doing is a bellwether for what the 3er will do. The large volume of the 3er makes it a more important vehicle to make more green. It is also a newer model. If the new car is not lighter I'd bet its similarity to the current model is much more than compared to the 5er.
very good point +1
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      01-21-2011, 08:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
what is the weight difference between the old 5 and new one. that should give you a clue
That's not really a good comparison and I'll tell you why. The old 5er utilized an aluminum front section which greatly reduced weight. Sadly the insurance cost were high because repairing aluminum is *extremely* hard. So BMW reverted back to using steel on the new 5er. This is not the case with 3er, we never had aluminum upfront.

Did you see the new X3's 4-cyl turbo unit. It's pumps out a respectable 245+ horses with a nice low end torque. With this motor a lighter 3 is possible. While most n54 owners will laugh at that HP rating, the truth is that you can build a pretty capable vehicle with only 245 horses if you keep the weight down. While really enjoyed the power of my old 335i, overall driving my ZHP is a more satisfying experience because of its lighter weight.
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      01-30-2011, 06:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Meanwhile, the 3 series is about to gain weight and size.
know that for sure , do you?

The X3 suggests otherwise.

.

Last edited by BMWDAD; 01-30-2011 at 06:14 AM..
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      01-30-2011, 05:22 PM   #17
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The new 3 series with an N55 enginge will weigh less than 3400 pounds
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      01-31-2011, 06:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I've seen those numbers as well as the disappointing figure for the new M5. That being said I'm not sure what the 5er is doing is a bellwether for what the 3er will do. The large volume of the 3er makes it a more important vehicle to make more green. It is also a newer model. If the new car is not lighter I'd bet its similarity to the current model is much more than compared to the 5er.
Yes, plus the four banger will weigh less than the six it replaces. I would expect the F30 to come in at least slightly under the weight of the E90. BMW and all other manufacturers cannot totally disregard the weight factor as they are heading towards significantly more severe CAFE requirements and cannot simply ignore efficiency. Smaller engines work harder to move heavy vehicles, so the improved EPA mpg for the new four may not actually prove to be all that much more than the six in "real world" driving.
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      05-03-2011, 01:54 AM   #19
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Bump.

Any new info here yet on weight. If not then perhaps equally important any idea when we will know about weight?
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      05-03-2011, 03:50 AM   #20
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Rumors are that its going to be lighter (makes sense given the F25 X3) but noone will know for sure until the official figures are published when the car is released in the fall.
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      05-03-2011, 07:21 PM   #21
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Between 3300 and 3400 pounds
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      05-04-2011, 03:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Rumors are that its going to be lighter (makes sense given the F25 X3) but noone will know for sure until the official figures are published when the car is released in the fall.
Thanks. I'm keen on the rumors, published/written somewhere or not? Trending can be useful but look at other cases such as the F10 550i vs. E60 550i. Here there is a very substantial weight gain. No bueno!
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