[DCTepper]

The OEM pads will need replacement soon and I've found that OEM pads are quite expensive (in comparison to higher performance aftermarket pads). My car is a daily driver, so I am looking for a solid street pad that has good initial bite, will hold up to higher temps (quick slow downs from higher speeds), and preferably dust less than OEM. Which pads have the best of all worlds (within reason, I know there are trade-offs)?

I've read through quite a few threads and see that most go with Hawk HPS or Cool Carbon pads. I've read some negative reviews on Cool Carbons (in regards to rust deposits, material buildup, etc) which lead me toward Hawks, but are there others I should be considering (i.e. Axxis, Ferrodo, Green/Yellow/Red/Purple/OrangeStuff, etc)?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[fisherbln]

I would go with the Hawk HPS. They have a little bit less initial bite than OEM, but a lot more than the Cool Carbons. They also dust quite a bit less than OEM.

[DCTepper]

Originally Posted by fisherbln

I would go with the Hawk HPS. They have a little bit less initial bite than OEM, but a lot more than the Cool Carbons. They also dust quite a bit less than OEM.

This appears to be the general consensus, thank you for the reaffirmation.

[EAS]

The Cool Carbons have very good initial bite after proper bedding and this increases with heat. The initial bite is however much smoother, more linear and easier to modulate than OE and instead of giving you a grabby 20% of full braking experience, they allow modulation and control from 0% to ABS and anything in between.

This smoothness can initially feel like less bite than OE, but is much easier to control and modulate and totally eliminates the grabby properties of the OE. They also release much better.

[DCTepper]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

The Cool Carbons have very good initial bite after proper bedding and this increases with heat. The initial bite is however much smoother, more linear and easier to modulate than OE and instead of giving you a grabby 20% of full braking experience, they allow modulation and control from 0% to ABS and anything in between.

This smoothness can initially feel like less bite than OE, but is much easier to control and modulate and totally eliminates the grabby properties of the OE. They also release much better.

What about the material buildup and rust deposits I've been reading about?

[EAS]

Originally Posted by DCTepper

What about the material buildup and rust deposits I've been reading about?

Rust deposits are created on the rotor surface. Semi-metallic formulations utilizing steel fibers (50%+ steel wool) are most likely to have rust issues, but rotor rusting with any pad is possible as the rotor surface is iron. Cool Carbon is not a semi-metallic formula but is actually a low-met formulation with some ceramic content.

Any rotor that is allowed to rust can cause friction material to build up which than will than need to be removed, either thru re-bedding in most cases or by cleaning with a Scotch brite pad and brake Kleen. Insufficient or improper bedding is another cause of material transfer or pad print, but more important if considering track usage. While there have been several complaints regarding rust or material transfer (including other manufacturers) , it is highly unlikely that you will have any issues in this respect especially with street usage only.

Here are several other reviews that should help:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258143

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373556

We have many very happy customers using Cool Carbon Pads.

[fisherbln]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

This smoothness can initially feel like less bite than OE, but is much easier to control and modulate and totally eliminates the grabby properties of the OE. They also release much better.

To be clear, the "grabby" properties of the OE pad are its initial bite. A more linear pad, by definition, has less initial bite. Not a bad thing, it is all about personal preferences.

I'm sure either pad can easily lock up the tires so the total bite of the pad is moot.

[DCTepper]

I just noticed that Hawk also offers Performance Ceramic pads, how might they compare to their HPS pads (semi-metallic?). They are very similar in price

[EAS]

Originally Posted by fisherbln

To be clear, the "grabby" properties of the OE pad are its initial bite. A more linear pad, by definition, has less initial bite. Not a bad thing, it is all about personal preferences.

I'm sure either pad can easily lock up the tires so the total bite of the pad is moot.

I would have to disagree.

The OE pads are grabby; when applied you have immediately 20% of full braking and they do not release well nor can you modulate between 0% and 20%. It Is more like an on/off switch. A good example of greater initial bite would be a high friction level racing pad for example, but also ones that you can control and modulate.

The Cool Carbon pads actually have a higher friction coefficient than OE when cold (about 0.42 vs .37 for OE) and this friction level will increase to about 0.50 with sufficient heat applied to the Cool Carbons. They are much easier to control and modulate as a result and with increasing braking ability. A good comparison would be a continuously variable as compared to a 2 or 3 speed fan.

Sure, both will get you to ABS but the Cool Carbons allow you to stop at the ABS threshold, if you choose, or any place in between and they also release much better. The bite is definitely there with the CC pads and it is much more uniform and linear then the OE which go immediately from 0% to 20% braking. BMW has recognized this attribute and toned this effect down some on most recent offerings as they have a slight bit more room to modulate, but then they grab with slightly higher pedal pressure.

Hope this more complete explanation helps!

[kai-wun]

Can anyone comment on HPS vs HP+ vs Cool Carbons?

//edit: a quick search turns up that some don't have good experience with HP+ and absolutely love the Cool Carbons. Very nice!

[DCTepper]

Originally Posted by kai-wun

Can anyone comment on HPS vs HP+ vs Cool Carbons?

//edit: a quick search turns up that some don't have good experience with HP+ and absolutely love the Cool Carbons. Very nice!

My personal experience is that the HP+'s are a good autocross/track pad, but are too aggressive for the street.

Still waiting for an objective response to HPS vs Cool Carbon, of course vendors that sell Cool Carbon are going to promote them.

[fisherbln]

Originally Posted by DCTepper

My personal experience is that the HP+'s are a good autocross/track pad, but are too aggressive for the street.

Still waiting for an objective response to HPS vs Cool Carbon, of course vendors that sell Cool Carbon are going to promote them.

+1, the HP+ is too aggressive (and noisy) for daily driving. I too would like to hear from someone that has tried both. I've used HPS and like them, but if someone has used both and can comment (not a vendor), I'd like to hear their opinion.

I have had the hawk ceramics and didn't like them at all. When they warmed up they weren't bad, but cold they just didn't feel like they would stop at all. They do dust a lot less though. I actually threw them away and ordered HPS instead. I may be too picky with brake pads.

[fisherbln]

BTW, have you seen Mr. 5's review of the Cool Carbon? I haven't read the entire thing yet, but there may be a couple of comparisons in there:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...+carbon+review

[DCTepper]

Originally Posted by fisherbln

I have had the hawk ceramics and didn't like them at all. When they warmed up they weren't bad, but cold they just didn't feel like they would stop at all. They do dust a lot less though. I actually threw them away and ordered HPS instead. I may be too picky with brake pads.

This is EXTREMELY helpful, thank you!

[DCTepper]

Originally Posted by fisherbln

BTW, have you seen Mr. 5's review of the Cool Carbon? I haven't read the entire thing yet, but there may be a couple of comparisons in there:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...+carbon+review

I agree that Cool Carbons receive a lot of great reviews, but it's hard to justify the difference in price between them and the Hawk HPS pads.

[fisherbln]

Originally Posted by DCTepper

I agree that Cool Carbons receive a lot of great reviews, but it's hard to justify the difference in price between them and the Hawk HPS pads.

Yep, just seeing if you had read the thread. There are a ton of other peoples reviews in the multitude of pages after Mr. 5's review. I too would like to hear from someone that has used both HPS and Cool Carbons on the same car.

[BcuzAWD]

I've had cool carbon S/T's for about 20k miles now and to be very honest I don't really like them. I bought them for the fact that I read that they don't dust bad and they are quiet! When I installed them i paired them up with rotora slotted and drilled rotors. The pads ARE noisy especially when coming to stops from 40mph and less. They give of a screeching noise that sounds like I have poor brakes lol. They also dust a lot more then I was expecting. Braking is as everyone said easier to modulate and balance 80% braking then just flat out ABS kicking in, I do miss that initial bite though. I think I'm going to either try EBC newest blue stuff brake pad or Hawks of some kind next. My experience with cool carbons haven't been great enough for me to purchase another set.

[EAS]

Cross drilled and slotted rotors will of course generate more dust than OE style rotors. We don't recommend cross drilled rotors as they also tend to crack around the holes. Dust that remains between the pad and rotor surface will create noise. Usually flushing the caliper with water from a hose will remove this dust and eliminate the issue. Re-bedding is also recommended for noise issues. Included with each set are instructions for noise prevention.

They include the use of Noise-Free or CRC Disc Brake Quiet and also Sta-Lube high temperature grease for all sliding parts. With smooth rotors the dust generated is about 2/3rds less than OE. I would be happy to send you a copy if you PM me your email address.

[CobraMarty]

I have been very happy and dust free with Akebono ceramic pads.

[DCTepper]

Below is a great threat I found on the M3 forum comparing the Hawk HPS and HP+ pads.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471332

[MCOChuck]

Anyone using the Pagid Red (Bavarian Autosport calls them Red but I only find Orange on the Pagid website)?

Where are you picking up your rotors and what are you using? Zimmerman’s?

[ERIC212NYC]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

I have been very happy and dust free with Akebono ceramic pads.

Same here brake pads are great and dust free.