[shnapper]

My SA wants the car tomorrow to document we don't have the cooler. He seems to be shocked we don't have to cooler? I wonder if he even knows where it's supposed to be? He was totally shocked, I'm wondering if he thinks I'm talking about the main radiator or something LOL!

My question is this and it pertains to those that HAVE THE OIL COOLERS ON THERE CARS.

Do The cars with the oil coolers run cooler than the ones without? from another thread that one with the voting poll it appears the temps may be the same?


Since BMW North America told my wife today there aware of the problem I wonder if the fix is more than just a simple oil cooler retro fit?................

[sdiver68]

If we are to have 1 "last" thread, let's get some facts out there:

Fact - The 335i, cooler or no, is designed to run "hot" to increase fuel efficiency and power. I think 90%+ of the hysteria is because BMW chose to give an oil temp gauge instead of an idiot light, and they are using a very advanced cooling system. Read pages 42-50 here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...0&d=1165592709

Fact - If you track/repeatedly lap your car in hot conditions, sans oil cooler, you MAY go into limp mode. However, limp mode is a safe mode...it will kick in well before any damage is done to the engine.

Fact - Most people will never encounter the conditions which may make it go into limp mode.

[200Duece]

I have one and it runs the same temps as everyone else.

[picus]

The car will run the same temps regardless of the cooler. The actual cooler itself is almost never "on", meaning it will only run if the oil is hot. By hot, I mean hotter than you will likely ever see on the road. Should all 335i's have it? IMO, yes. Does it really matter? Probably not.

[shnapper]

Originally Posted by picus

The car will run the same temps regardless of the cooler. The actual cooler itself is almost never "on", meaning it will only run if the oil is hot. By hot, I mean hotter than you will likely ever see on the road. Should all 335i's have it? IMO, yes. Does it really matter? Probably not.

These are my thoughts also, I agree with you that the oil cooler may not make a difference at all. So your saying the cooler isn't a constant flow it has a thermostat that opens and closes flow according to oil temp?

I did not know this, I really thought the oil circulated through it constantly...........

[fragadellic]

Originally Posted by shnapper

My SA wants the car tomorrow to document we don't have the cooler. He seems to be shocked we don't have to cooler? I wonder if he even knows where it's supposed to be? He was totally shocked, I'm wondering if he thinks I'm talking about the main radiator or something LOL!

My question is this and it pertains to those that HAVE THE OIL COOLERS ON THERE CARS.

Do The cars with the oil coolers run cooler than the ones without? from another thread that one with the voting poll it appears the temps may be the same?


Since BMW North America told my wife today there aware of the problem I wonder if the fix is more than just a simple oil cooler retro fit?................

Which dealership are you at in Phoenix, and who's your SA?

BTW, he doesn't "need the car" to document that there's no oil cooler. Peeking into the mesh with or without a flashlight will take about 10 seconds...

[MDman]

Originally Posted by picus

The car will run the same temps regardless of the cooler. The actual cooler itself is almost never "on", meaning it will only run if the oil is hot. By hot, I mean hotter than you will likely ever see on the road. Should all 335i's have it? IMO, yes. Does it really matter? Probably not.

Picus, but the air to oil cooler might stop the automatic e92s from going into limp mode, so the car can be tracked without worry.

[shnapper]

Originally Posted by fragadellic

Which dealership are you at in Phoenix, and who's your SA?

BTW, he doesn't "need the car" to document that there's no oil cooler. Peeking into the mesh with or without a flashlight will take about 10 seconds...

I'm not taking it in, I just don't want to go because it's like going to the dentist to me. I will call in the morning and tell them to let me know when and if any bulletins come out. I know I don't have the cooler, I don't feel I need to prove a thing. In contrast, I'm done stressing over this whole thing and will leave it to the birds. BMW corp admitted to me today they know of the problem and are working on it, nothing like info straight from the horses mouth. I've logged out of the bimmer forums permanently and I'm doing the same here for a long while. No need to keep reading negative stuff it just brings me down. I can't let an automobile bum me out life is just way to short for this kind of thing.

So be good yall, take care and have a nice day...........:rocks:

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by shnapper

I'm not taking it in, I just don't want to go because it's like going to the dentist to me. I will call in the morning and tell them to let me know when and if any bulletins come out. I know I don't have the cooler, I don't feel I need to prove a thing. In contrast, I'm done stressing over this whole thing and will leave it to the birds. BMW corp admitted to me today they know of the problem and are working on it, nothing like info straight from the horses mouth. I've logged out of the bimmer forums permanently and I'm doing the same here for a long while. No need to keep reading negative stuff it just brings me down. I can't let an automobile bum me out life is just way to short for this kind of thing.

So be good yall, take care and have a nice day...........:rocks:

Okay, take care, see ya tomorrow

There's no point in trying to stay away, you'll just want to take one more look to see if anyone went to the track over the weekend or if anyone overheated or if Shiv got that new map or remote thingy working.

[picus]

Originally Posted by MDman

Picus, but the air to oil cooler might stop the automatic e92s from going into limp mode, so the car can be tracked without worry.

Have you been reading the threads on the oil cooler? I've been one of the more outspoken members regarding it. I definitely think all 335i's should have it, no question.

Originally Posted by n1smo

picus has a tendency to talk out of his a$# so take what he says with a grain of salt. He also thought that the manual transmission runs so much hotter than the automatics that BMW decided to put *2* coolers in the auto and *1* in the manual.

I also think the extra oil cooler run continuously based on the fact it takes forever for my car to warm up. If there are documentations that say otherwise, please post it.

I never said that. The two field engineers I spoke with both indicated the cooler is only on over certain temps. I am just relaying what they told me.

It also seems to make sense when you read what is in the tech doc re: the oil cooler:

The N54 engine is equipped with a high performance engine oil cooler. The pendulum-slide pump delivers oil from the oil sump to the oil filter. A *thermostat* flanged to the oil filter housing admits the oil to the engine oil cooler. The engine oil cooler is located in the right wheel arch of the e92. The thermostat can reduce the resistance opposing the oil by opening the bypass between the feed and return lines of the engine oil cooler. This ensures the engine warms up safely and quickly.

So maybe it doesn't run when warming up, or maybe it just sends less oil sometimes, but there is a thermostat. Maybe that is what the field engineers meant. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what is going on with the oil cooler like everyone else, so go flame bait someone else.

[Ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by shnapper

So be good yall, take care and have a nice day...........:rocks:

NO! WAIT! This isn't right... you can't leave after 18 posts. You haven't even entered addiction stage yet, that's about 300 posts in!!!

[MDman]

Originally Posted by picus

Have you been reading the threads on the oil cooler? I've been one of the more outspoken members regarding it. I definitely think all 335i's should have it, no question.

Picus, yes I know you are, and I thank you for it. But you didn't add the most important part of the argument. Make sure you do next time. Not everybody is following every one of your threads. Please excuse me if my comment was conveyed the wrong way.

[picus]

Sorry, you're right. I should have been more clear. There is a lot of information kind of all over the place in all these cooler threads. Maybe we should have a sticky or something.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by n1smo

picus has a tendency to talk out of his a$# so take what he says with a grain of salt. He also thought that the manual transmission runs so much hotter than the automatics that BMW decided to put *2* coolers in the auto and *1* in the manual.

I also think the extra oil cooler run continuously based on the fact it takes forever for my car to warm up. If there are documentations that say otherwise, please post it.

Sorry but that's complete "out his ass" logic. My car doesn't have the oil cooler and doesn't reach full warmup on my 20 mile, 30-35 minute commute each day. I'm not saying the oil cooler runs continuously or intermitently since I really have no idea. But using the fact that your car takes a long time to fully warn up as proof that the oil cooler runs continuously is the least scientific data regarding the oil cooler I have seen yet.

[TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by radgator1

Sorry but that's complete "out his ass" logic. My car doesn't have the oil cooler and doesn't reach full warmup on my 20 mile, 30-35 minute commute each day. I'm not saying the oil cooler runs continuously or intermitently since I really have no idea. But using the fact that your car takes a long time to fully warn up as proof that the oil cooler runs continuously is the least scientific data regarding the oil cooler I have seen yet.

+1. Pretty crappy efficiency if you ask me if the oil cooler does run continuously from start up.

[BoostedInPhx]

Has anyone anyone tried connecting to the OBDII port and logging the oil and water temperatures as the car warms up? Radgator1 indicates it takes a long time for his car to warm up. This would tell us how warm the coolent is getting. At a coolent temperature of about 255 F the engine starts to enter the limp mode just like it does with hot oil. Since we have only an oil temp gauage the engine may be warmed up much sooner and it is taking time for the oil to get warm. Another view might be it takes a long time for the oil to start to overheat. This might be the case of is the glass half full or half empty? The oil cooler does have a thermostat as indicaded on page 46 of the engine management document or you can look at the oil filter componenets at WWW.realoem.com. This shows the thermostat housing on the side of the oil filter. Also if you look radiator section the oil cooler shown for the automatic is for the transmission. The parts are shown in their relative position on the car as if the front of the car is facing to the lower left side of the page. (there is an arrow pointing in that direction on the page) This shows the lines going to the transmission and not the oil filter. In the picture below I have an arrow pointing to the lines going from the oil filter to the engine oil cooler on the passengers side. This may be easier to see then looking for the actual cooler. Realoem.com also shows all European cars get the oil to air cooler.

Has anyone reported receiving a 2007 production Step that has had a cooler? I am still waiting for Sedan with Step and sport to arrive and I am wondering if I should take it if the cooler is not there since I live in Phoenix. The G37 review at Edmunds.com indicated that the 335s autos they had for comparison went into limp mode after 4 laps on the track near Phoenix. That week we had several days in the mid 90 degree range. This summer it will be another 20 degrees hotter. Even if the cars were shut off or left idling during driver changes with the electric fan and coolent pump they should have had good cooling at this time since the pump can run at full output if necessary. When the oil gets to 300 F the ECU shuts down the AC and starts reducing the power in the component protection mode. At 315 F the engine is at 10% power and is in the emergency mode. This info is from the engine management document. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856
This should be a must read for everyone.
Several members of this forum have tracked their cars and the manual ran for an hour at 270F with no problem while the Step had to slow down every few laps to avoid hitting 300F.
This indicates that the cooler makes a significant difference. Sorry for the log post. I am new at this and I am handycapped since I also normally use my hand when I talk.

[itsbrokeagain]

holy cow..some bullshit here. Time to end this oil cooler thing once and for all.

Oil coolers will NOT...I repeat..will NOT circulate oil all the time when the car is on. Most oil coolers in factory cars do this. This is to allow the oil to warm up to proper operating temperature, then when it does so, it opens the valve to allow the hot oil to circulate to the cooler. If it was constantly being cooled, it would stay thick most of the time and rob the motor of efficiency due to its not being fully warmed up.

If you don't beat on your car during your commute to work, you aren't putting any unnecessary abuse into your oil. My car has 260 miles on it and if I cruise around town, the oil temps take a while to come up. It about 55 degrees outside, and I haven't really pushed it past 4k either.

The more I drive this car, the more I feel confident in its oil temperatures. My needle stays very steady, and BMW has designed it that way so they must know what they are doing. Why would some guy engineer a motor so it could destroy itself? That would be shooting their own foot so they could pay for all the motors we keep nuking under warranty. Common sense people.

[bilworth]

Hi Mr. BMW Tech,

Nice to hear from you. I think we understand the operational theory behind oil coolers. What we don't understand is: Why do some cars have the extra oil cooler and some don't? And why do some cars have difficulty keeping the oil temp within reasonable limits? Why don't Subaru and Mitsubishi have these problems? I thank you in advance for your answers.

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by bilworth

Hi Mr. BMW Tech,

What we don't understand is: Why do some cars have the extra oil cooler and some don't? And why do some cars have difficulty keeping the oil temp within reasonable limits? Why don't Subaru and Mitsubishi have these problems? I thank you in advance for your answers.

I was actually talking to my shop foreman friday when I picked the car up concerning the step's with no cooler. At the present moment, him and I only assume they did not include it was because maybe they weren't planning for someone with steptronic to take it to the road course and track it. Auto trans run hot themselves (150 or getting all the way to 200 sometimes). We havent recieved that many 335s yet, and every day at work over lunch we've poured over the complete 335 diagnostic book to try to get some kind of answers.

Pertaining to mitsubishi and subaru, I couldnt really comment. Ive worked on Mitsubishi motors before and never had a hot oil issue. Then again they never put their oil through as much abuse and heat as the N54 engine does. This oil is also quite thin compared to the 10w or the 20w I've run in high hp turbo engines, so it heats up very easily and stays hot.

And compared to Subarus history of blowing the pistons apart and mulching transmissions (same said for Mitsubishi), aside from that one car R&D blew up (what can you expect from a bunch of ham fisted journalists), have we had any issues with this car oil wise so far besides the autos cooking the oil? Its relatively new, and anything new from any manufacturer is bound to have bugs that need to be worked out of it. Same goes for the 745.

Next time Bill (our field engineer for the area) is in town I'll ask him myself and see if I can come up with some better answers.

[bilworth]

Thank you! Please keep us posted regarding any new info.

[picus]

Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain

holy cow..some bullshit here. Time to end this oil cooler thing once and for all.

Oil coolers will NOT...I repeat..will NOT circulate oil all the time when the car is on. Most oil coolers in factory cars do this. This is to allow the oil to warm up to proper operating temperature, then when it does so, it opens the valve to allow the hot oil to circulate to the cooler. If it was constantly being cooled, it would stay thick most of the time and rob the motor of efficiency due to its not being fully warmed up.

Thank you for the post

[TiAg335i]

Nice work on the pic man...that might help a few of us out. ^^

But I would suggest taking that up with BMW immediately. Get calling!