[Jamesons Viggen]

That was a fun title

So my friend who is a BMW tech goes for training now and then and we do dinner while he is in NJ.

This week he told me something he learned about ASS in the F30.

Basically the recoding is a good thing because apparently there comes a day when an icon appears on the screen with the message REPLACE ALTERNATOR and stays there until you do so. I asked him how many cycles before that message comes on and he said they did not know.

I mean it could be years, or it could be YEARS. Who knows.

But I would be pissed if I saw that message within say 60k of ownership.

[JUSKIDN]

Im sure it is suggested to replace at that time and can be checked out and have it reset if still operational.

[Yobyot]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

That was a fun title

So my friend who is a BMW tech goes for training now and then and we do dinner while he is in NJ.

This week he told me something he learned about ASS in the F30.

Basically the recoding is a good thing because apparently there comes a day when an icon appears on the screen with the message REPLACE ALTERNATOR and stays there until you do so. I asked him how many cycles before that message comes on and he said they did not know.

I mean it could be years, or it could be YEARS. Who knows.

But I would be pissed if I saw that message within say 60k of ownership.

Ah ha! I knew there was some reason that BMW buried the notifications about "excess wear" in an appendix to the Quick Start Manual (see this post).

I smell lawsuits...

[Sam_D]

same goes with the starter... life expectancy of the starter is supposed to be 60k miles...thats if the you use the ASS all the time!

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by ZmmF30xi

same goes with the starter... life expectancy of the starter is supposed to be 60k miles...thats if the you use the ASS all the time!

Where did you get that info? I can't believe any manufacturer would be allowed to install a component that is expected to fail as the warranty expires.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ZmmF30xi

same goes with the starter... life expectancy of the starter is supposed to be 60k miles...thats if the you use the ASS all the time!

There is a thread on here about the starter and it's life expectancy.
Seems BMW designed the starter to be capable of much longer life, and many more start cycles than a typical starter.
I think the factor is like 7 to 8 times more.

As for the alternator, I don't see that it would die too early.
Regenerative braking is also providing charge to the battery and that lessens the load on the alternator.

Also, the 335i has a higher spec alternator.
That info is on BMW's site under "specs" for the 328i and 335i.
328i - Alternator 170/2380
335i - Alternator 210/2940

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

This week he told me something he learned about ASS in the F30.

Basically the recoding is a good thing because apparently there comes a day when an icon appears on the screen with the message REPLACE ALTERNATOR and stays there until you do so. I asked him how many cycles before that message comes on and he said they did not know.

Personally I can't see how ASS could directly affect alternator life, more the starter motor, IMO. I sense a bit of a panic and/or a negative viewpoint.

To have the message show up, on failure, is probably better than a failure without knowing what is wrong. The idea of telling us exactly what is wrong, is something many have been wanting for years. Doesn't mean it is built in just because the life cycle is expected to be shorter.

Originally Posted by RPM90

Seems BMW designed the starter to be capable of much longer life, and many more start cycles than a typical starter.
I think the factor is like 7 to 8 times more.

As for the alternator, I don't see that it would die too early.
Regenerative braking is also providing charge to the battery and that lessens the load on the alternator.

I've also read articles which indicate the starter is beefed up to cope with the extra loads.

Re the alternator, I think you have got that wrong, I see the alternator getting more peak loads as it kicks in on the overrun, often at higher levels of charge than if just running as a conventional alternator. There is no separate regenerative charging system bypassing the alternator.

If the alternator is more susceptible to failure, it is likely because it is more complex with its clutch mechanism and how it works on the overrun. So not an ASS issue, but more efficient energy recovery under this bad description of regenerative braking, which of course we know it isn't, in the strictest sense.

As an observation I sense anything that 'bashes' ASS will get headlines, but in this instance I think we ought to be looking at the real reasons for alternator complexities.

HighlandPete

[raceing86]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Personally I can't see how ASS could directly affect alternator life, more the starter motor, IMO. I sense a bit of a panic and/or a negative viewpoint.

To have the message show up, on failure, is probably better than a failure without knowing what is wrong. The idea of telling us exactly what is wrong, is something many have been wanting for years. Doesn't mean it is built in just because the life cycle is expected to be shorter.

I've also read articles which indicate the starter is beefed up to cope with the extra loads.

Re the alternator, I think you have got that wrong, I see the alternator getting more peak loads as it kicks in on the overrun, often at higher levels of charge than if just running as a conventional alternator. There is no separate regenerative charging system bypassing the alternator.

If the alternator is more susceptible to failure, it is likely because it is more complex with its clutch mechanism and how it works on the overrun. So not an ASS issue, but more efficient energy recovery under this bad description of regenerative braking, which of course we know it isn't, in the strictest sense.

As an observation I sense anything that 'bashes' ASS will get headlines, but in this instance I think we ought to be looking at the real reasons for alternator complexities.

HighlandPete

+1

Couldn't agree more buddy.

I've learned a couple things here over the past few months on F30 post. One being, when you mention ASS someone in the thread will eventually mention 'recall' or 'law suit'.

[metrickid]

You do know that BMW offered A.S.S before the F30 on other models?
It is not like this is their first attempt on this, they have had it for years.

[boltjames]

I used to hate my ASS but since the recode I don't think about it at all, it's like I have no ASS.

BJ

[JOHNBMWM5]

I have used the ASS on my last two cars all the time never had a problem.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Personally I can't see how ASS could directly affect alternator life, more the starter motor, IMO. I sense a bit of a panic and/or a negative viewpoint.

Totally sorry, I had been drinking.

The message is REPLACE STARTER, not alternator. Doh.

[Jamesons Viggen]

I don't mind it at all since the re-code.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Personally I can't see how ASS could directly affect alternator life, more the starter motor, IMO. I sense a bit of a panic and/or a negative viewpoint.

To have the message show up, on failure, is probably better than a failure without knowing what is wrong. The idea of telling us exactly what is wrong, is something many have been wanting for years. Doesn't mean it is built in just because the life cycle is expected to be shorter.




I've also read articles which indicate the starter is beefed up to cope with the extra loads.

Re the alternator, I think you have got that wrong, I see the alternator getting more peak loads as it kicks in on the overrun, often at higher levels of charge than if just running as a conventional alternator. There is no separate regenerative charging system bypassing the alternator.

If the alternator is more susceptible to failure, it is likely because it is more complex with its clutch mechanism and how it works on the overrun. So not an ASS issue, but more efficient energy recovery under this bad description of regenerative braking, which of course we know it isn't, in the strictest sense.

As an observation I sense anything that 'bashes' ASS will get headlines, but in this instance I think we ought to be looking at the real reasons for alternator complexities.

HighlandPete

Yes, the regenerative system uses the alternator to produce charge for the batter, as I understand it. Unless BMW is employing much more complicated at each wheel, which is not likely.
They are likely using the same tech as they used in the 5 series.
When the engine is running the alternator is decoupled, so that it's not running all the time as it would in a traditional system.
That saves some of it's life right there.

On braking the alternator is engaged to provide charge to the battery.
I can see why you would think that this would cause greater wear on the battery, but the jury is still out on that one.
Also, it's very likely that BMW beefed up the alternator if needed.
That battery is beefed up it seems.
Here's an excerpt from Autoblog.

For the first time ever, BMW has equipped a non-hybrid car with a regenerative braking system. There's a new battery that uses fiberglass mats between the plates to keep the electrolytes put, and a corresponding "intelligent" alternator. The battery technology, known as Absorbtive Glass Mat construction is capable of being charged very quickly without boiling; and they stand up far better to the deep cycling that would be abusive to a traditional lead-acid battery. The ability to receive and deliver high amperages reliably makes the AGM batteries ideal for coupling with the rest of BMWs Efficient Dynamics program. The battery can be fully charged during braking, which reduces the load on the engine by making the alternator work less. The program's intent is to reduce weight and fuel consumption, ultimately keeping CO2 emissions down. BMWs efforts result in a vehicle that has the low-rolling-resistance tires, electrically operated AC and power steering and stop/start systems of a hybrid, without the electric motors.


True, I don't know if the alternator will last as long as before, but we don't know that it won't. Have there been a large number of early alternator failures in the 5 series since 2008?

[kokopuffs405]

I like ASS

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Unless BMW is employing much more complicated at each wheel, which is not likely.
They are likely using the same tech as they used in the 5 series.

....I can see why you would think that this would cause greater wear on the battery, but the jury is still out on that one.
Also, it's very likely that BMW beefed up the alternator if needed.
That battery is beefed up it seems.
Here's an excerpt from Autoblog.

...True, I don't know if the alternator will last as long as before, but we don't know that it won't. Have there been a large number of early alternator failures in the 5 series since 2008?

BMW's system is not really a true brake regenerative system, that designation is pushing the marketing speak. IMO. It functions like the previous 3-series E9X models and latest 5-series. Just the alternator coupling and control.

I didn't make any reference to the battery, but as you mention it, it is a weakness in previous generations of 1, 3 & 5 series with ASS fitted. Lots of UK users have ASS failing to operate due to loss of efficient battery charging. Seems the AGM battery's ability to charge efficiently tails off quite quickly if conditions are not well suited to the new alternator strategy. There is new battery technology on the horizon for ASS applications, (but that is another topic). Short trips can fail to get enough battery charge, and ASS fails to work anyway.

I've not heard of alternators failing in the E9x cars, but have read of strange noises, so possible clutch issues impending.

HiighlandPete

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW's system is not really a true brake regenerative system, that designation is pushing the marketing speak. IMO.

Indeed. It's somewhat disingenuous to call it brake energy regeneration. It's just choosing when to use and when not to use the alternator.

[rconti]

I disliked ASS in the 328 I drove, but

... I fail to see how the existence of a message that says "replace starter" or "replace alternator" means that the part will fail sooner.

Seems like a good thing to alert owners to impending failure.

The way it works with my car, when the battery dies, one day, the car just doesn't start. Have you ever push-started a car on flat ground, by yourself? It works, but it's tricky.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW's system is not really a true brake regenerative system, that designation is pushing the marketing speak. IMO. It functions like the previous 3-series E9X models and latest 5-series. Just the alternator coupling and control.

I didn't make any reference to the battery, but as you mention it, it is a weakness in previous generations of 1, 3 & 5 series with ASS fitted. Lots of UK users have ASS failing to operate due to loss of efficient battery charging. Seems the AGM battery's ability to charge efficiently tails off quite quickly if conditions are not well suited to the new alternator strategy. There is new battery technology on the horizon for ASS applications, (but that is another topic). Short trips can fail to get enough battery charge, and ASS fails to work anyway.

I've not heard of alternators failing in the E9x cars, but have read of strange noises, so possible clutch issues impending.

HiighlandPete

Yeah, "brake regeneration" leaves one thinking one thing, but when you understand how it actually works, you get a very different perspective on the meaning.

I put battery info in there just as an fyi for al of us, as it seems BMW is addressing things they may have learned since implementing the regen and ass systems.

[tiobueno]

I have asked the dealer to recode the ASS and they said they can't do it. Is this for the new 2013 F30? I have a 2012. They have no clue. Suggestions?

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by tiobueno

I have asked the dealer to recode the ASS and they said they can't do it. Is this for the new 2013 F30? I have a 2012. They have no clue. Suggestions?

Email the service manager this:

SIB 12 15 12

INFORMATION
The Automatic Start/Stop (MSA) system is a further BMW Efficient Dynamics measure aimed at meeting BMW's commitment to reducing CO2 emissions and enhancing fuel economy.

BMW, always a leader in innovative technology, will be the first automobile manufacturer to bring MSA technology to all new models.

Automatic Start/Stop systems will become prevalent in the future, as manufacturers strive to meet increasingly stringent emissions and fuel economy requirements.

By automatically switching the engine off when the car is stationary, MSA can improve fuel economy and reduce emissions.

New F-vehicles now incorporate the second generation of MSA (MSA II), which has been further developed to operate in combination with an automatic transmission and the BN2020 electrical system.

A detailed description of the MSA Automatic Start/Stop function can be found in the ICP Technician library under Technical Training course ST1112.

SITUATION
Some drivers have expressed the desire to deactivate this function in certain situations. This can be done manually via the Automatic Start/Stop function button with the LED switched on, indicating that the start/stop function is deactivated.

However, by default, the Automatic Start/Stop function is reactivated each time the engine is started.

At the request of an owner, it is possible to modify this default logic to "Last user mode."

With this logic, the current MSA's activated or deactivated setting is stored and used on the next trip.

Note: All new BMW M models have the "Last user mode"� as the default setting from production.

BJ