[Brock Landers]

Friend of mine wrote an e-mail to a well respected German BMW tuner G-Power asking about chipping possibilities for the 335i. On their website http://www.g-power.de/ he found the following information and asked about the prices: G-POWER performance kit G1 – Electronic optimization by motronic adjustment 335i – factory turbo, performance upgrade approx. 30hp / 45hp / 75hp incl. V-MAX release


This is the answer what he got:

We thank you very much for your inquiry and take pleasure in attaching our price-list containing all G-POWER products being available for your car. Please be informed that for BMW 335i engine, there is no performance upgrade available at the moment since the present engines do not stand the increased power. Therefore, we are now waiting for the next engine generation since these are expected to be more resistable against damages.

Kind regards,

Claudia Martin
Export / Sales


G-POWER® / CEMEO GmbH
Küferstrasse 9
25541 Brunsbüttel

How is it possible that guys at Vishnu are so succesful with their software modifications? Maybe BMW has a silent agreement with respected German BMW tuners, that no serious software mods won't be offered because it would hurt the sales of the new M3? Does this logic make any sense?

[elucas730]

Apparently the people at G-POWER are completely clueless. How would they know that the engine can't handle higher levels of power? Have the tuned the engine and found at which point it explodes? Have the performed long-term durability tests at different levels of modification? My guess is no and that they are just talking out of their ass.

As for a 'silent agreement' between BMW and German tuners - that would be an incredibly stupid move on the side of the tuners. The 335i will (by far) be the most popular BMW to tune EVER. They will be losing out on tons of money by opting out of this market.

[Majick]

Sounds like these German tuner companies need a little stupid slap to wake them up! Or a hearing aid, hell, even I can hear the ch-ching in the air!

[turbocoins]

Originally Posted by elucas730

Apparently the people at G-POWER are completely clueless. How would they know that the engine can't handle higher levels of power? Have the tuned the engine and found at which point it explodes? Have the performed long-term durability tests at different levels of modification? My guess is no and that they are just talking out of their ass.

As for a 'silent agreement' between BMW and German tuners - that would be an incredibly stupid move on the side of the tuners. The 335i will (by far) be the most popular BMW to tune EVER. They will be losing out on tons of money by opting out of this market.

+1

[zenmaster]

Why not simply ask G-Power what test data they are referencing? If they don't have any to back it up, then call BS.

There is a local Dinan shop that claims the exact same thing. The owner himself told me Alpina blew up many an N54 engine in testing.

Given that Alpina decided to use stronger and lighter pistons and provide only 40 more HP, makes you wonder.

[judec]

maybe they know s/t we dont, or are just cautious, at least they will state it this way

[gonzo]

Political response. They missed the boat and are running around like mad scientist's on meth trying to catch up. My .02.

[BzzzBom]

You are all wrong. This issue has been stated by Dinan, G-Power and the folks at BMW in Germany. IMO, if you chose to increase boost on your car you may want to go with a more conservative map such as the one from RDsport.

BMW is working at releasing an N54 HP motor by the end of this year. Although the platforms that will be equipped with this version have not yet been decided, it is safe to say that the E90 through E93 platforms will get it as soon as it is available. The expected HP rating is around 355PS, up from the standard 306PS of today's motor. The current HP test engines have exacerbated a problem that already exists on the current 306PS motor, where the temperatures of cylinders 5 and 6 are higher than expected and are a huge cause for concern. BMW is looking at a solution to this problem, and is also anticipating that they may experience some engine failures on the current motor. What is clear, is that they heve to wrestle the cause of the problem, and/or find a solution, before they release the N54 HP version into the market.

In typical BMW fashion, these issues are monitored without being made public, as they do not want to have to answer to any unwanted warranty claim, or even worse, be forced to issue a general recall that may prove to be unecessary, as they will address the isolated cases on a one-by-one basis. This is no different than how they handled the piston ring/oil consumption problem on the early S62 motor. Don't be surprised, if they should decide to keep the standard 306PS version alongside the HP (i.e. in the 135i), to see next year's engine to be a little different than what is offered today.

If any of you have driven your 335i hard, you may have noticed a tendency for the oil temperatures to be a little high. The problem is that the temperature gauge is measuring the average temperature once the oil recirculates, so you can imagine, if cylinders 5 and 6 are the ones generating most of the heat, that this is an area that could be prone to failure.

[DCJAX]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

If any of you have driven your 335i hard, you may have noticed a tendency for the oil temperatures to be a little high. The problem is that the temperature gauge is measuring the average temperature once the oil recirculates, so you can imagine, if cylinders 5 and 6 are the ones generating most of the heat, that this is an area that could be prone to failure.

So I should hope my engine blows up under warranty, sometime in the next 2 years?

[achien]

We can debate and scream at each other all we want, but only time (5 years will be enough) can tell whether PROcede, EXcede, or TT will cause problems on this engine.

With extra HP and Torque, you would expect more wear & tear on the engine. The question is, will the additional load from PROcede, EXcede, or TT be enough to cause the engine to be re-build pre-maturely? If so, how soon?

P.S. I will definitely upgrade to PROcede/EXcede/TT in the future, but most likely after the engine warranty is over.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

I've driven hard all over germany and the temperature has never been over 260. You need to calmdown before you start telling people that their motor's will die.

Also, Shiv has had his 335 for around 25000 miles and as far as I know the way he tests his products if there really was a big issue we would have known about it already.

The fuel pump is the biggest problem.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

I've driven hard all over germany and the temperature has never been over 260. You need to calmdown before you start telling people that their motor's will die.

Also, Shiv has had his 335 for around 25000 miles and as far as I know the way he tests his products if there really was a big issue we would have known about it already.

The fuel pump is the biggest problem.

Oil temperatures are definitely high on the 335i. With 6MT and oil cooler, I can EASILY get over 280 on the track. 295 isn't uncommon. And I'm by no means a professional driver. I can only imagine what a pro running at 10/10ths can do to the oil temps.

But you are correct in that, on the street, temps rarely go above 260.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Oil temperatures are definitely high on the 335i. With 6MT and oil cooler, I can EASILY get over 280 on the track. 295 isn't uncommon. And I'm by no means a professional driver. I can only imagine what a pro running at 10/10ths can do to the oil temps.

But you are correct in that, on the street, temps rarely go above 260.

Dude I drive on the autobahn everyday, not on some highway in the states. I'm constantly going 140-155mph, slowing down because of some A4 in the way, and then raising the speed. Happens over and over again and I'm telling you, atleast for myself, Ive never been over 260 and it has been hot as hell here too.

[DrewKo]

It's also the coolant, not just the oil temp, that can be problematic. Though, i doubt either will have long term negative affects on engine life. You can always get an aftermarket intercooler, since at least one is available now from Spearco.

[catdog]

ArmyBimmerDude, do you have the oil cooler?

[Lee Rambler]

similar concerns were there for supra and 3000gt motors, and they are still going pretty strong with much more added boost than we're currently looking at. I think that we'll only know after it's stood the test of time, but in all likelyhood the engine will be very robust. If they are having a hard time cracking the ecu, they could be buying some time. I don't necessarily agree with the method, I think I'd rather just hear the truth, but it's a way to buy some time. Alot of tuners aren't interested in a piggyback, they want to do a reflash so they have better control and less actuall produt cost and product failure possibility. They also want to release something once and not have all the different versions, due to problems and needed fixes. This takes more time, and alot more testing. I'd personally rather not be told something is going to be available, just to be jerked around waiting for it, then get it and it have all kinds of bugs. Then wait for an update, and then another update, yada yada yada. But they should just say they are working on something and it just isn't ready yet. But then I guess they are afraid of losing potential customers to the products that are already out....

[BzzzBom]

It is all about statistics, not anecdotal reports of specific cars that have made it to 25,000 miles. My grandfather lived to 92 and smoked for 80 years. Therefore cigarettes do not shorten your life?@!

[Hillstreet]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Oil temperatures are definitely high on the 335i. With 6MT and oil cooler, I can EASILY get over 280 on the track. 295 isn't uncommon. And I'm by no means a professional driver. I can only imagine what a pro running at 10/10ths can do to the oil temps.

But you are correct in that, on the street, temps rarely go above 260.

Just got back from a 5000mile round trip of Europe through Germany, Austria, Italy and France. Been driving the car pretty hard all the way through and the temp has never gone above 260. Passing Austria we had 100+ degrees outside and still no problems at all.
So i would say the 335 with the oil cooler does not have any problems at all.

[ward]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

It's also the coolant, not just the oil temp, that can be problematic. Though, i doubt either will have long term negative affects on engine life. You can always get an aftermarket intercooler, since at least one is available now from Spearco.

intercoolers cool the intake charge and have little to do with oil/water temps

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Dude I drive on the autobahn everyday, not on some highway in the states. I'm constantly going 140-155mph, slowing down because of some A4 in the way, and then raising the speed. Happens over and over again and I'm telling you, atleast for myself, Ive never been over 260 and it has been hot as hell here too.

Hey man, sorry didn't mean to imply that you drive slow. But if you take your car on a slightly technical track, you will see oil temps shoot through the roof, oil cooler or not.

Doing 140-155 on the autobahn is great for cooling your oil. Resistance (hence airflow) increases at a square of speed, so at 140mph, you have a lot of air molecules flowing over the oil cooler.

Take the tight turn X at your local track, pound it for 3 seconds before braking hard for turn Y, apex, pound it for turn Z ---- and your temps will rise faster than you can do a lap. On the track, you aren't at top speed all the time, but rather often accelerating from a low speed (depends on how technical the track is) with full power. The engine doesn't have the benefit of high cruising speed to cool off.

Take a look at this video. A few hot laps, with 6MT and oil cooler (granted by a driver much better than I) and boom, he's limpin home.

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtes...arison_part_2/

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by Hillstreet

Just got back from a 5000mile round trip of Europe through Germany, Austria, Italy and France. Been driving the car pretty hard all the way through and the temp has never gone above 260. Passing Austria we had 100+ degrees outside and still no problems at all.
So i would say the 335 with the oil cooler does not have any problems at all.

As I stated, driving hard on the street is nowhere near as stressful on the cooling system as driving on the track. Once I hit 285-290 on the track, I would ease off and cruise for about 90 SECONDS and boom, the temps are down to 250-260 immediately.

Pound it constantly like you are apt to do on the track and the car can't dissipate the heat.

I love the 335i as much as you - but call a spade a spade.

[judec]

+1

ArmyDude, go to the Nurnburgring and push it hard. Then let us know