[carl_d]

Quote:

"Engine boss, Fritz Steinpanzer, told Autocar, the compact three-cylinder is the starting point for a whole new range of engines, including replacements for today’s four- and six-cylinder units, that will head into various BMW models within the next year or so."

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744833

[SomeRandomer123]

But the new 3cyl is the N55 chopped in half, no? Cylinders are 0.5l's, VALVETRONIC, TwinScroll turbo, piezoelectric injectors, etc...

Thought it was in essence, the same, but really turned up to 11!

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123

But the new 3cyl is the N55 chopped in half, no? Cylinders are 0.5l's, VALVETRONIC, TwinScroll turbo, piezoelectric injectors, etc...

Thought it was in essence, the same, but really turned up to 11!

I thought the N55 was based on the N54 which traces its way back to the M50 of 1989 via the M52, M54 and M56. I see the N55 as being rather long in the tooth (old) yet competitive through repeated updates. The N54/N55 also adopted much new tech from the now defunct but "newer design" N52 and N53 engines. I presume we are now looking at a clean sheet design with this triple (called B38) and we will see a new six with up to 400 hp? I expect we will see this in the F32 launch - I think Scott said this somehwere?

[SomeRandomer123]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I thought the N55 was based on the N54 which traces its way back to the M50 of 1989 via the M52, M54 and M56. I see the N55 as being rather long in the tooth (old) yet competitive through repeated updates. The N54/N55 also adopted much new tech from the now defunct but "newer design" N52 and N53 engines. I presume we are now looking at a clean sheet design with this triple (called B38) and we will see a new six with up to 400 hp? I expect we will see this in the F32 launch - I think Scott said this somehwere?

True, the N55 isn't a redesign and as you say, appears old in the tooth! Although they've made the block out of aluminium, find 0.5l per cylinder is most efficient, sticking with piezo injectors, sticking with TwinScroll turbocharging, sticking with double-VANOS, sticking with VALVETRONIC, the list goes on! So unless they're reinventing the internal combustion engine (which they haven't with the B38), what changes?

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just curious!

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123

True, the N55 isn't a redesign and as you say, appears old in the tooth! Although they've made the block out of aluminium, find 0.5l per cylinder is most efficient, sticking with piezo injectors, sticking with TwinScroll turbocharging, sticking with double-VANOS, sticking with VALVETRONIC, the list goes on! So unless they're reinventing the internal combustion engine (which they haven't with the B38), what changes?

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just curious!

According to wikipedia it is a complete re-design.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55#section_1

[Alessandro]

i am confident that when the F32 is revealed that they will also introduce the succesor of the N55 which means they will increae HP for sure. Same happend during the E90 remember going from 330 to 335.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I thought the N55 was based on the N54 which traces its way back to the M50 of 1989 via the M52, M54 and M56. I see the N55 as being rather long in the tooth (old) yet competitive through repeated updates. The N54/N55 also adopted much new tech from the now defunct but "newer design" N52 and N53 engines. I presume we are now looking at a clean sheet design with this triple (called B38) and we will see a new six with up to 400 hp? I expect we will see this in the F32 launch - I think Scott said this somehwere?

The N55 is very modern turbo engine that even incorporates valvetronic into it's design.
It's also a very fresh engine, really coming to market in 2010.

Of course, none of that means anything if BMW decides on different engines.
If a new 3.0 inline 6 is coming next year, then it will be coming early. The N55 hasn't even had an update yet, and BMW has a new 6cyl?
We'll have to wait and see.

[Hayir]

According to this all three ebgines will use the same cylinders which are 0.5L each. Surprisingly, it also stays that diesel engines will be also very similar. If this happens BMW will have one cylinder, stick 4 of them together, here is your 2.0 4 cylinder, stick 6 of them together here is your 6 cylinder 3.0.

Change some parts make it a diesel. Start sticking them together again.

Not enough, it also claims that these engines can be mounted longitudinal and transverse.One cylinder will cover all the BMW and mini line up.

It really sounds like big cost saving for BMW if they can do it.

The basis of the new family of engines is a common design principle for in-line units. The basic engine is made up of optimized cylinder modules with capacities of 500 cc each, developed to the pinnacle of thermodynamic efficiency for use in a passenger vehicle. Consequently the new three-cylinder engine has a capacity of 1.5 litres, the four-cylinder unit is 2.0 litres and the six-cylinder is 3.0 litres. The power developed in each cylinder is between 30 and 55 kW (at 60 – 80 Nm) in the case of the petrol engine, while the diesel develops between 20 and 45 kW (at 75 – 110 Nm).
High degree of commonality between petrol and diesel engines.

The structural similarities between the petrol and diesel engines include the distance between cylinders, the aluminium crankcase, the balance shaft design, the arrangement of the timing chain, the layout of the cylinder head bolts and the high-quality coating on the cylinder bore surfaces. Overall, the number of identical parts used in engines powered by the same type of fuel climbs to 60 percent, while the level of structural similarities between petrol and diesel engines is around 40%. Even more benefits are provided by standardised interfaces. In addition to the identical engine mounting points, these are primarily the interfaces to the cooling circuit, the intake and exhaust manifolds and the heating and air conditioning systems. Compared to current models, the number of possible combinations in these areas has decreased by about half. Finally, all of the power units have the same “cold” intake and “hot” exhaust sides. This is why the three and four-cylinder engines in this new family are eminently suited to both longitudinal and transverse mounting in future BMW and MINI models.

[SomeRandomer123]

Originally Posted by Hayir

According to this all three ebgines will use the same cylinders which are 0.5L each. Surprisingly, it also stays that diesel engines will be also very similar. If this happens BMW will have one cylinder, stick 4 of them together, here is your 2.0 4 cylinder, stick 6 of them together here is your 6 cylinder 3.0.

Change some parts make it a diesel. Start sticking them together again.

Not enough, it also claims that these engines can be mounted longitudinal and transverse.One cylinder will cover all the BMW and mini line up.

It really sounds like big cost saving for BMW if they can do it.

But the cubic capicity per cylinder of the N55, N20 and B38 are all 0.5L as this is most efficient, BMW say.
Same story with the diesels - N57, N47...

[Mako]

yeah I think if there is a replacement to the I6 3.0 its just going to be a new 3.0, sort of like the N54 to N55 engine. I bet the HP will be about the same (maybe a slight increase to 315 or something like that). They aren't going to all of a sudden stick bigger turbos in there or increase the boost on the current ones because its a new engine. It will just be a cost saving move. Now if they said the new M3 will have a 3.2L engine and the 335i/340i will get the same engine with a single smaller turbo, I coudl see it being a major change, that isn't going to happen though.

This should get Mini fans excited though, much more effecient engines for Mini, especially if they finally decide to put the ZF 8 speed in them, combined with the new 3 cyl. engine, I could see 20%+ effeciency increases. Its pretty sad when a heavier 335 xdrive with a bigger engine gets the same MPG that a Mini Countryman All4 gets! that will hopefully change now.

[SomeRandomer123]

Originally Posted by Mako

yeah I think if there is a replacement to the I6 3.0 its just going to be a new 3.0, sort of like the N54 to N55 engine. I bet the HP will be about the same (maybe a slight increase to 315 or something like that). They aren't going to all of a sudden stick bigger turbos in there or increase the boost on the current ones because its a new engine. It will just be a cost saving move. Now if they said the new M3 will have a 3.2L engine and the 335i/340i will get the same engine with a single smaller turbo, I coudl see it being a major change, that isn't going to happen though.

This should get Mini fans excited though, much more effecient engines for Mini, especially if they finally decide to put the ZF 8 speed in them, combined with the new 3 cyl. engine, I could see 20%+ effeciency increases. Its pretty sad when a heavier 335 xdrive with a bigger engine gets the same MPG that a Mini Countryman All4 gets! that will hopefully change now.

But what is changing? You can't have a new product if nothing changes!
Is the block going to be made out of pig iron?!

[RPM90]

"Cost savings = higher profit margin", I don't see BMW passing the savings to it's customers.
After all, someone has to pay for all the freaking in between "gran coupes" coming down the line.

[RJK993]

is this the only confirmation that this is going to occur? has anyone heard anything from dealers?

i had intended to order my car in mid-november, to time the car arrival with the end of my c300 lease. if this is true, i'd try and wait for the new motor and just drive my 993 for a few months

[Itgb]

Originally Posted by RJK993

is this the only confirmation that this is going to occur? has anyone heard anything from dealers?

i had intended to order my car in mid-november, to time the car arrival with the end of my c300 lease. if this is true, i'd try and wait for the new motor and just drive my 993 for a few months

The US release of either the F30 or F32 w/updated 6-cyl is quite a ways off. You'll be driving your 993 for a lot more than a few months.

[Hayir]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123

But the cubic capicity per cylinder of the N55, N20 and B38 are all 0.5L as this is most efficient, BMW say.
Same story with the diesels - N57, N47...

But they are all different engines. When they do this all engines would share the same basic structure and the same parts (even the diesels) and it will bring big cost savings. That`s what I understand.

[RJK993]

Originally Posted by Itgb

The US release of either the F30 or F32 w/updated 6-cyl is quite a ways off. You'll be driving your 993 for a lot more than a few months.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[tuned2ride]

I really hope that a new direct injected 6-cyl. is under its way.

A 4-cyl. turbo is probably more expensive to produce and IMO, it doesn't belong to a Bimmer. It sounds baaaaad.

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123

True, the N55 isn't a redesign and as you say, appears old in the tooth! Although they've made the block out of aluminium, find 0.5l per cylinder is most efficient, sticking with piezo injectors, sticking with TwinScroll turbocharging, sticking with double-VANOS, sticking with VALVETRONIC, the list goes on! So unless they're reinventing the internal combustion engine (which they haven't with the B38), what changes?

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just curious!

I see your point. So why do it? Just for easier production?

I think I read somewhere that 3 and 4 cylinder engines are built in a different factory/country to the 6 cylinder engines, so will the savings be that great?

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

I really hope that a new direct injected 6-cyl. is under its way.

A 4-cyl. turbo is probably more expensive to produce and IMO, it doesn't belong to a Bimmer. It sounds baaaaad.

I think you may be confused, the new 6 cyl will not be replacing the N20 in the 328i. It will replace the N55 engine in the 335i.

I just drove the Audi 2.0T and Mercedes 1.8T yesterday. The N20 is way more powerful than both and didn't sound any better or worse than its competitors. The 4 cyl is here to stay bro.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I think you may be confused, the new 6 cyl will not be replacing the N20 in the 328i. It will replace the N55 engine in the 335i.

I just drove the Audi 2.0T and Mercedes 1.8T yesterday. The N20 is way more powerful than both and didn't sound any better or worse than its competitors. The 4 cyl is here to stay bro.

If anything it will only get bigger in terms of number of applications.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I think you may be confused, the new 6 cyl will not be replacing the N20 in the 328i. It will replace the N55 engine in the 335i.

I just drove the Audi 2.0T and Mercedes 1.8T yesterday. The N20 is way more powerful than both and didn't sound any better or worse than its competitors. The 4 cyl is here to stay bro.

And it's a fantastic engine to boot.
The US market has some old school thinking still weaving it's way around, where people think engine size makes a car "premium".
These people don't seem to understand the level of engineering and "premium" technology that goes into making a 4 cylinder turbo with such great linear power delivery along with better fuel efficiency.
Adding more cylinders simply adds more power and cost, it doesn't mean more cylinders makes an engine more "premium", not with modern engine design.

But, it took a long time before the dinosaurs went kaput, and it took a global disaster for it to happen. So those old school "bigger is better" and
"more is better" may be around with us for some time to come.

Audi needs to step it up now. They were once at the forefront of small turbocharged engines with great capabilities. BMW has upped the ante, and Cadillac has made the call as well, Audi's turn.

[justinnum1]

N20 is a hell of a motor.