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      08-13-2007, 02:58 PM   #1
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Price differences on re-mapping - Why such discrepancy?

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the price difference from re-mapping providers for a 335d M. I know that there are a few options around but after a bit of research I have zoomed into 3 providers: DMS, Birds (Hartge) and CA. Looking into their info they all show relatively similar numbers, but the cost of the basic re-map varies quite a lot.

I have read the arguments in the CA website as to why they are cheaper and the ones in the Birds website as to why they are expensive. DMS seems to be in the middle and they have their own arguments as well.

Are all three ok and basically one should go with whoever they feel more comfortable?

I would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks
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      08-13-2007, 03:01 PM   #2
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GP-TT, welcome to this great site!

I know nothing of remaps, I am sure experts will be along shortly, but how about posting a few pics of your 335d?
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      08-13-2007, 03:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP-TT View Post
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the price difference from re-mapping providers for a 335d M. I know that there are a few options around but after a bit of research I have zoomed into 3 providers: DMS, Birds (Hartge) and CA. Looking into their info they all show relatively similar numbers, but the cost of the basic re-map varies quite a lot.

I have read the arguments in the CA website as to why they are cheaper and the ones in the Birds website as to why they are expensive. DMS seems to be in the middle and they have their own arguments as well.

Are all three ok and basically one should go with whoever they feel more comfortable?

I would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks

Hi and welcome to the forum, im Carlos Fandango

i think you should do a poll, of who has gone with who out of the 3 re-mappers you have mentioned

many on here use CAA, altho i had never heard of them untill i came here.. DMS i had heard of and offer a warranty on parts if bmw dont honour theres!!

im not sure who i will go to either tho... DMS or CAA tho..:rocks:


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      08-13-2007, 03:04 PM   #4
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Hi and apologies for not clarifying this at the beginning of my previous post.

I'm currently driving a 2001 reg TT (re-mapped, hence my desire to look at re-maps again), but I feel it's about time for a change.
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      08-13-2007, 03:21 PM   #5
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Tks for the welcoming guys. Carlos how do I do the poll
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      08-13-2007, 03:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by GP-TT View Post
Tks for the welcoming guys. Carlos how do I do the poll
im confused, your audi tt is re-mapped? and you are now wanting to re-map your 335d?

i have done polls but at the start of a new thread, not sure how to after you have already started one, sorry bud


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      08-13-2007, 03:25 PM   #7
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Tks Carlos, I will start a new thread.

As per your question; I currently drive a re-mapped TT which I'm looking to sell and buy a 335d which I'm going to re-map.
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      08-13-2007, 03:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GP-TT View Post
Tks Carlos, I will start a new thread.

As per your question; I currently drive a re-mapped TT which I'm looking to sell and buy a 335d which I'm going to re-map.
GOOD choice of car:rocks: get an SE and you get the 230's. they look so gooooood:rocks:


get the new thread and poll up im interested in the results


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      08-13-2007, 04:13 PM   #9
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I use CA Automotive. I have a lot of previous dealings with them and trust their judgement 100%. If anything is to give up on a 335D after a remap, my car would have shown signs of fatique given how hard I drive it. So far, 10k miles later, everything is spot on. Also claimed power increase is verified by me using an independent dyno to be very genuine.
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      08-13-2007, 04:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by peppernick View Post
I use CA Automotive. I have a lot of previous dealings with them and trust their judgement 100%. If anything is to give up on a 335D after a remap, my car would have shown signs of fatique given how hard I drive it. So far, 10k miles later, everything is spot on. Also claimed power increase is verified by me using an independent dyno to be very genuine.

nick have you been down the pod since the re-map?


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      08-14-2007, 07:26 AM   #11
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Ive used CAA and the improvment is excellent.

Its as fast as you really need to travel on the road

The service was excellent and i would defo recommend.


Welcome to the forum
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      08-14-2007, 08:19 AM   #12
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I'm tempted. Warranty issue concerns me, and insurers hiking premiums.
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      08-14-2007, 10:05 AM   #13
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silverbmwze,

Can't comment on the warrranty, but on the insurance issue you may be pleasantly surprised if you use some of the specialists insurers.

As you saw from my earlier post, I still drive a TT which I have re-maped. I used Adrian Flux and the quote was significantly lower from the few mainstream insurers that were willing to look at insuring my re-mapped car.

Give them a call if you want - 08700 692 202
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      08-14-2007, 10:40 AM   #14
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Thanks, might do that. I use Privelege - anyone know what their take on it is?
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      08-15-2007, 04:26 AM   #15
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Thinking about this some more.... if the mappers/tuners are confident of their remaps why don't they all offer a warranty? It is a sign of confidence IMHO. If they don't or their warranty is worthless in reality, then to me that is a sign of concern?

I just struggle to believe that you can push these cars further without ill effects (maybe not in short term) otherwise why wouldn't the manufacturers want to get the maximum out of them? OK I hear the bit about fuel quality, temperatures etc. worldwide then why not tune it for whichever market at the factory ?
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      08-15-2007, 04:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Thinking about this some more.... if the mappers/tuners are confident of their remaps why don't they all offer a warranty? It is a sign of confidence IMHO. If they don't or their warranty is worthless in reality, then to me that is a sign of concern?
The thing with warranties is that absolutely everything can be broken. If you wanted, you could probably kill your 100% stock 335d in a couple of hundred miles.

A company big as BMW can tolerate a couple of 'idiots' who would destroy their car in such a way, so they can give you a warranty.
But a a smaller remapping company could quite easily go under if they had to buy just one car such as a 335d.

Disclaimer: I have no connection with remapping whatsoever, and I think I won't remap my 335d at all, and the things I've written in this post are my own opinions, not facts.
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      08-15-2007, 05:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Thinking about this some more.... if the mappers/tuners are confident of their remaps why don't they all offer a warranty? It is a sign of confidence IMHO. If they don't or their warranty is worthless in reality, then to me that is a sign of concern?

I just struggle to believe that you can push these cars further without ill effects (maybe not in short term) otherwise why wouldn't the manufacturers want to get the maximum out of them? OK I hear the bit about fuel quality, temperatures etc. worldwide then why not tune it for whichever market at the factory ?

Bmw wouldnt risk a car being such close to failure, an element of safety is manufactured in.. they prob tested the 335d till it blew a turbo or headgasket etc.. they will know roughly how far the stock turbos can go with regards too boost!!

the car is unlikely to fail.. its when parts are replaced ie bigger turbos for more power and then if they are not installed correctly problems can arise.

I think DMS offer a warranty or car parts...

there are people abusing there bmws all over.. i once broke a diff on a 318is, not through abuse because in the 25k i did in it over two years i only did 1 doughnut, about 10 1/4mile launches and at least once a week sideways in it! so not really abuse but ''driven hard'' springs to mind

and that was a 6 yr old car when i got it with 56k on it!!

peppernick doughnuts his 335d without a problem and nothing has broken yet!!

most of you with who have had a re-map, wont even see a drag strip ever so the cars weak point i feel will be the transmission.. if you never launch hard it cant really break.....

even new cars break at the 1/4mile, have seen about 5 focus ST break when launched... i must have 1/4mile our 335d 16 times now so far so good

just want a re-map now and see how much the times improve??!!


some cars will fail stock... some tuned ones never fail.. luck and common sense needs to be on your side..

get a re-map, im sure your soon realise what youve been missing..

remember its only an ecu tweak, its not as if the car undergoing major surgery for 600bhp is it?!!

i have seen 600bhp escort cossies, (had many many poudns piled into them and far from stock) running 10 sec quarters at 130 odd MPH, now thats fast, the guy told me personally he had FULL-BORE launched the car 60 times without any failure!!! but it was a VERY well built car!!

it can be done.. My motto is ''Do it right, First time''


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      08-15-2007, 06:22 AM   #18
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I just think it is a big risk, if you get it remapped and either engine or transmission goes and by whatever mechanism BMW suspect or detect the remap then you're on your own I would've thought. Cries of "mine's ok after x miles" doesn't mean they all will be so it is quite a risk.

Bit like when I drilled into our brand new kitchen to fit soft close fittings, I even thought I was mad doing that because if I'd screwed up it could've been expensive.... the same thinking for me applies here only I suspect it could be more expensive to screw up a beemer and find yourself without warranty.
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      08-15-2007, 06:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Thinking about this some more.... if the mappers/tuners are confident of their remaps why don't they all offer a warranty? It is a sign of confidence IMHO. If they don't or their warranty is worthless in reality, then to me that is a sign of concern?

I just struggle to believe that you can push these cars further without ill effects (maybe not in short term) otherwise why wouldn't the manufacturers want to get the maximum out of them? OK I hear the bit about fuel quality, temperatures etc. worldwide then why not tune it for whichever market at the factory ?
Agreed. If they're confident in their remaps they should put their money where their mouth is and give a warranty. Otherwise walk away.
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      08-15-2007, 09:06 AM   #20
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DMS do but I get the impression that i) Their map for 335d perhaps isn't as "aggressive" as CAA? and ii) I'm not sure that it has ever been tested and thought I'd read (may be wrong) that the small print renders it effectively worthless.
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      08-15-2007, 09:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
I just think it is a big risk, if you get it remapped and either engine or transmission goes and by whatever mechanism BMW suspect or detect the remap then you're on your own I would've thought. Cries of "mine's ok after x miles" doesn't mean they all will be so it is quite a risk.

Bit like when I drilled into our brand new kitchen to fit soft close fittings, I even thought I was mad doing that because if I'd screwed up it could've been expensive.... the same thinking for me applies here only I suspect it could be more expensive to screw up a beemer and find yourself without warranty.
Truth be told, if you are in good relations with your car dealer he can repair things that shouldn't be under warranty and then get a refund for the work and parts from BMW AG (or BMW UK, I don't know how exactly things work in the UK). He can even fix things for you if the warranty has expired..

So, if you are friendly with your car dealer, chip away!
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      08-15-2007, 02:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
if the mappers/tuners are confident of their remaps why don't they all offer a warranty? It is a sign of confidence IMHO
Has anyone actually read the fine prints of the supposed 'warranty' some mappers give? Do you really think XYZ is going to order you a brand new engine, transmission etc and get BMW to fit it so that your factory warranty is retained? They may get the car back on the road for you, but what they do with it is totally at their descretion. Tuner 'warranties' with the exception of those endorsed by BMW themselves are nothing more than a sales pitch. There are just too many loop holes to work around in the event of an unlikely 'warranty' claim from serious damage that may be directly associated with the re-map. It's a huge grey area.

If you're really serious about tuning, you have to do your own research and make informed decisions about your choice of mods. If you have to really rely on the warranty and couldn't see yourself finding a way round things when problems arise other than the conventional approach, it's probably better if you don't do it. That's my opinion
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