[M&M]

OK so on the dyno there was no peak gain, but a handful of hp gain after the peak to 6500rpm. I managed to get some time to do some logs. But if was short 3rs & 4th gear logs & the same test track as before the cooler. The ambient was 82 deg & the base test was in 75 deg ambients.

I used the same procedure of starting 3rd gear, 3000rpm & running to 7000rpm in 4th, starting from the same starting point in the track both times.

I logged the intake air temp with my OBD-II logging software just as before. With the Spearco the intake temp started at 107 & ended at 134 (I test on the uphill part of the track). With the stock cooler it started at 102 & ended at 136 on a slightly cooler day.

So it seems the cooling benefit is not much, especially on a chipped car. I need to load the stock map & see what cooling benefit one can gain when stock, but I doubt it will be much different.

So the power gain is not much, the cooling gain is not much. Overall it seems to be a bit disappointing but I know from previous cars that a cooler is one of those mods that doesn't seem to give much bang for buck.

The 2 positives are that the heat soak effect seems to be reduced. The car doesn't feel like a dog when you do multiple consecutive runs.

And one doesn't need the LBT map even at altitude. Seems to run fine with the normal 1.47 map even in the heat at altitude with pump fuel.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by M&M

The 2 positives are that the heat soak effect seems to be reduced. The car doesn't feel like a dog when you do multiple consecutive runs.

seems to be, or is, you have the ability to, so why not test it


hate to say it but.... yea

where are your lower EGTs now (not @ you m&m )

[M&M]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

seems to be, or is, you have the ability to, so why not test it

Unfortunately I had limited time at the test facility. So I did 2 runs to the top of 4th, then I had to leave. I will go back maybe this week-end & do like 10 consecutive runs & see where the temps end up. I have data with the stock cooler & the temps just kept going up but levelled out at some point around the 7th ot 8th run. Can't remember what the temps were, but I have it recorded.

When it gets to that stage the car feels normally aspirated. You can't feel the shove on boost & it just revs flat. But now it seems to pull the same on multiple runs & you can still feel the boost effect. But yeah, it will be better to log it.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

seems to be, or is, you have the ability to, so why not test it


hate to say it but.... yea

where are your lower EGTs now (not @ you m&m )

I know it's me

I'll get FMIC soon. The upgraded FMIC helped a lot on a former X5 3.0 diesel I had. I know that there are a lot of differences comparing diesel to petrol engines. I am very interested about my experience with the Spearco and will post them. You can be sure, if I will not see any lower temp's I will state this very clear.

BTW, I appreciate your postings, are you a tech ?

Cheers
Eugen

[RedGT3]

Originally Posted by M&M

OK so on the dyno there was no peak gain, but a handful of hp gain after the peak to 6500rpm. I managed to get some time to do some logs. But if was short 3rs & 4th gear logs & the same test track as before the cooler. The ambient was 82 deg & the base test was in 75 deg ambients.

I used the same procedure of starting 3rd gear, 3000rpm & running to 7000rpm in 4th, starting from the same starting point in the track both times.

I logged the intake air temp with my OBD-II logging software just as before. With the Spearco the intake temp started at 107 & ended at 134 (I test on the uphill part of the track). With the stock cooler it started at 102 & ended at 136 on a slightly cooler day.

So it seems the cooling benefit is not much, especially on a chipped car. I need to load the stock map & see what cooling benefit one can gain when stock, but I doubt it will be much different.

So the power gain is not much, the cooling gain is not much. Overall it seems to be a bit disappointing but I know from previous cars that a cooler is one of those mods that doesn't seem to give much bang for buck.

The 2 positives are that the heat soak effect seems to be reduced. The car doesn't feel like a dog when you do multiple consecutive runs.

And one doesn't need the LBT map even at altitude. Seems to run fine with the normal 1.47 map even in the heat at altitude with pump fuel.

Where can I buy this software?. What parameters can you log?

[Bravo1]

Hate to say it, but that is right along the lines of what I predicted. For track days it will help to keep the engine running a little more consistent but horsepower gains on a dyno would be minimal.

Also unless if you have some type of special fan in front of the car while it's on the dyno, the intake temperatures will remain pretty high compared to normal.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by M&M

Unfortunately I had limited time at the test facility. So I did 2 runs to the top of 4th, then I had to leave. I will go back maybe this week-end & do like 10 consecutive runs & see where the temps end up. I have data with the stock cooler & the temps just kept going up but levelled out at some point around the 7th ot 8th run. Can't remember what the temps were, but I have it recorded.

When it gets to that stage the car feels normally aspirated. You can't feel the shove on boost & it just revs flat. But now it seems to pull the same on multiple runs & you can still feel the boost effect. But yeah, it will be better to log it.

good that you have the data from before though, thats all that really matters, as long as your able to compare it at some point

my guess is it will level out a little sooner but not by much; heres to hoping it will sustain lower temps for longer

[down4it]

Turbonetics has some really expensive testing equipment and if they saw that there were no gains or temp advantages form this FMIC i dont think they would have released this product... they have a reputation as a company to maintain... I dont think that you are properly testing the FMIC or who knows if you are even really testing or just typing up a bunch of crap... I dont see any pics of your process so its hard to tell whether your testing is some B.S. or something to consider... IMO... Also i have the Spearco FMIC installed and my car feels way better on back to back runs, i lost traction at the top of second gear last night and thats never happened before the FMIC and my boost is jumping to 14psi here and there... It never went past 13psi before the FMIC...

[uberschnell]

Wow, thanks for the info. I don't think this is the final word on the subject but definitely a good "piece' for further discussion.

I'm especially impressed with your candidness in regards to the results. I think this really bolsters your credibility.

I'm sorry that someone has taken to attacking you already:

I dont see any pics of your process so its hard to tell whether your testing is some B.S. or something to consider... IMO...

In fact it's far more common for someone to "BS" in order to keep from admitting their investment hasn't panned out as well as planned.

[M&M]

Originally Posted by down4it

Turbonetics has some really expensive testing equipment and if they saw that there were no gains or temp advantages form this FMIC i dont think they would have released this product... they have a reputation as a company to maintain... I dont think that you are properly testing the FMIC or who knows if you are even really testing or just typing up a bunch of crap... I dont see any pics of your process so its hard to tell whether your testing is some B.S. or something to consider... IMO... Also i have the Spearco FMIC installed and my car feels way better on back to back runs, i lost traction at the top of second gear last night and thats never happened before the FMIC and my boost is jumping to 14psi here and there... It never went past 13psi before the FMIC...

Wow dude. I payed my hard earned cash for it. I really want it to work & report back positive news. But hey that's my findings. What you want me to lie?

[leftcoastman]

I've worked with M&M before to test various products and techniques. He is top notch in his methodology.

His credibility is further enhanced by his willingness to say "I spent a crapload on a product that was worthless to me."

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by down4it

Turbonetics has some really expensive testing equipment and if they saw that there were no gains or temp advantages form this FMIC i dont think they would have released this product... they have a reputation as a company to maintain... I dont think that you are properly testing the FMIC or who knows if you are even really testing or just typing up a bunch of crap... I dont see any pics of your process so its hard to tell whether your testing is some B.S. or something to consider... IMO... Also i have the Spearco FMIC installed and my car feels way better on back to back runs, i lost traction at the top of second gear last night and thats never happened before the FMIC and my boost is jumping to 14psi here and there... It never went past 13psi before the FMIC...

holly shit, your method of testing is SO much more accurate than m&ms whos actually using an obdII scanner to read actual sensor temps

EVERYONE listen to down4it his butt says its faster, this is 100% conclusive proof that the intercooler pwnz j00







m&m looking forward to more, hopefully more favorable, results, good work

[bnj]

Originally Posted by M&M

Wow dude. I payed my hard earned cash for it. I really want it to work & report back positive news. But hey that's my findings. What you want me to lie?

Supposingly yes. Why are you not like the majority of the forum members?

Personally I appreciate very much your unbiased honest postings.

In your case (altitude) the real gain is partly a result of being able to use the normal map instead of LBT map and thus a bit more than the handful at the top end.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

holly shit, your method of testing is SO much more accurate than m&ms whos actually using an obdII scanner to read actual sensor temps

EVERYONE listen to down4it his butt says its faster, this is 100% conclusive proof that the intercooler pwnz j00







m&m looking forward to more, hopefully more favorable, results, good work

You guys are like sensative little girls... Im not bashing the OP im just saying that i dont think his testing of the Intercooler is as good as say Turbonetics whos budget for testing is much higher and their available equipment is better... I have the intercooler too and i know it doesnt do much but it does do something... All of you other than myself and M&M do not have the intercooler so your opinions dont really mean anything...

[retrodrive]

Thanks for letting us know about your findings. Don't let the crybabies get to you. It is what it is till somebody comes up with any credible results that prove otherwise. I was going to get one but I will hold off for now.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by down4it

You guys are like sensative little girls... Im not bashing the OP im just saying that i dont think his testing of the Intercooler is as good as say Turbonetics whos budget for testing is much higher and their available equipment is better... I have the intercooler too and i know it doesnt do much but it does do something... All of you other than myself and M&M do not have the intercooler so your opinions dont really mean anything...

higher budget: check
better equipment: check

extreme bias: double quadruple to the tenth power check


i could say something about people who trust manufacturer claims fully and blindly without any independent testing, but then i would get into trouble


by the way, i suggested to both AA and turbonetics that they should preform heatsoak testing, wonder why neither ever did

[down4it]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

higher budget: check
better equipment: check

extreme bias: double quadruple to the tenth power check


i could say something about people who trust manufacturer claims fully and blindly without any independent testing, but then i would get into trouble

I understand what you are saying but its not like the VQ/Bavdom story where they are saying that an intake and exhaust yeilds 420lb ft tq to the ground... Turbonetics claimed like 14whp if you are running a chip... That does not sound like an exaggerated claim...

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by down4it

I understand what you are saying but its not like the VQ/Bavdom story where they are saying that an intake and exhaust yeilds 420lb ft tq to the ground... Turbonetics claimed like 14whp if you are running a chip... That does not sound like an exaggerated claim...

its not at all exaggerated, but its likely all that it is, im not here to argue about that though just dont give m&m shit for trying to bring some independent testing to the table with the best tools he has available to him

[M&M]

Hey guys, its a sore topic to pay money & not get what you were expecting. Especially as my buddies are saying it would have been a quarter of the cost to do Aquamist water injection & get better results. Maybe our conditions, altitude, fuel, etc make our results different, but I doubt that.

But the cooler does indeed work better than stock. It makes a few hp & drops the temps a few deg & helps with heat soak. If it were half the price it may be a good mod.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by M&M

Hey guys, its a sore topic to pay money & not get what you were expecting. Especially as my buddies are saying it would have been a quarter of the cost to do Aquamist water injection & get better results. Maybe our conditions, altitude, fuel, etc make our results different, but I doubt that.

But the cooler does indeed work better than stock. It makes a few hp & drops the temps a few deg & helps with heat soak. If it were half the price it may be a good mod.

how much did you pay shipped and installed?

[Bravo1]

Most manufacturer claims on products are exaggerated... it's just marketing. Other vendors on this site do it as well and usually the differences are put down to temperature, altitude, humidity, fuel, variances in manufacturing etc.

This intercooler will help on hot track days and most likely make the horsepower more reproducible. I won’t get into ECU stuff, but being able to keep things in normal operating ranges is a big plus. Plus I haven’t heard of any changes in spool up, so I would be happy that wasn’t impacted.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by down4it

So you're saying that turbonetics is not credible... Some of you are just dumb...

Just curious: Do you believe all the marketing from "big" companies?