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      05-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #1
abp689
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M235 steering???

Has there been any info released on the steering mechanism of the upcoming 235?

According to an article in road and track, the infamous F30 electric unit will be the unit of choice. I do not see how it would remain hydraulic.
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      05-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #2
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Scott said same one from M135i but a little more sporty
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      05-23-2013, 12:27 PM   #3
abp689
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Really? Seems like BMW would prefer to share platform cost between the 2 & 3.

But good to know! I would like to hold out for the 2, but have zero interest in the electric steer column.
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      05-23-2013, 12:42 PM   #4
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The F2x M135i uses EPS, so will the M235i:
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      05-23-2013, 12:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abp689 View Post
Really? Seems like BMW would prefer to share platform cost between the 2 & 3.

But good to know! I would like to hold out for the 2, but have zero interest in the electric steer column.
Platform for 2 series is the F20 1 series.
Platform for 4 series is the F30 3 series.

Here is scott26's quote

"The M235i is a little rocket , especially when let loose on freshly fallen snow. basically the M135i but with more direct chassis and dynamic involvement as per the other 2er models. It really loves to play and will let you. It is not a 1M but it is no less dynamically unfaithful but its potential shines for future M involvement."
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      05-25-2013, 05:19 AM   #6
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The 2 or the 4 might pass me bye:

1. steering (electric)

2. 6mt (has to be perfect, no dct option)
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      05-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #7
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more bad news with the steering and now suspension

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...m-sport-page-3
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      05-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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I just hope they leave the M2 with an hydraulic steering.
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      05-29-2013, 05:28 AM   #9
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Hydraulic power streering and non-RFT flat tyres are the basic things I would expect in a M division car.
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      05-29-2013, 06:51 AM   #10
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Couldn't the EPS be controlled via DME to set the tightness of the steering?

I know back when I had the newer VW's, I could have adjusted the EPS via software in the ECU through my diagnostic cable

Just a thought...
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      05-29-2013, 07:32 AM   #11
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WTF is BMW thinking messing up one of the main things you buy a freaking BMW for? The Ultimate Driving Machine, minus the steering of course.

This is bad news.
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      05-29-2013, 07:36 AM   #12
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I cannot say I was ever overly impressed with my 1ers steering. On center feel was always a bit vague to me. Maybe it was that super slow 16-1 rack.

If the consensus is that the M235's steering may feel worse than a 135, that would probably break the deal for me.
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      05-29-2013, 10:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
more bad news with the steering and now suspension

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...m-sport-page-3
Why even compare a 2 series with an F30? That makes no sense.

The M135i has been praised by journalists left and right for being an amazing car (especially at this price range). There are plenty of videos and articles that will confirm that.

And we aren't even talking about the full blown M2 here.
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      05-29-2013, 10:46 AM   #14
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Yup, as stated above, I would hopefully compare the 2er to the 1er, which the M135i got sports car of the year from Top Gear. Especially since Scott said the 2er would be slightly more sporty then the 1er, hopefully we don't have a lot to worry about
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      06-02-2013, 06:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenkirby21 View Post
Yup, as stated above, I would hopefully compare the 2er to the 1er, which the M135i got sports car of the year from Top Gear. Especially since Scott said the 2er would be slightly more sporty then the 1er, hopefully we don't have a lot to worry about

top gear still was not in love with the steering
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      06-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Why even compare a 2 series with an F30? That makes no sense.

The M135i has been praised by journalists left and right for being an amazing car (especially at this price range). There are plenty of videos and articles that will confirm that.

And we aren't even talking about the full blown M2 here.
While they have praised the car overall, nearly every review that I have read or watched have said that there wasn't as much feel as they would like.
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      06-03-2013, 12:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
more bad news with the steering and now suspension

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...m-sport-page-3
Why even compare a 2 series with an F30? That makes no sense.

The M135i has been praised by journalists left and right for being an amazing car (especially at this price range). There are plenty of videos and articles that will confirm that.

And we aren't even talking about the full blown M2 here.
Let's be realistic. There is no way that any future BMW, M or not, will come with a HPS. (I heard major part suppliers are all moving away from HPS.) Furthermore, in all likelihood the EPS unit will be the ZF units across the board that have become standard for German cars, including Porsche.

Now maybe some day they will be able to program an EPS to emulate a good HPS realistically enough, but their operations are quite different at the core, and it is non trivial to make one feel like the other. It is def. NOT just an issue of steering weight.
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      06-06-2013, 11:54 AM   #18
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It seems like all manufacturers got on board with the switch to EPS at the same time. They all know it doesn't feel as good as hydraulic, but with the EU and the U.S. both requiring increased efficiency, all major manufactures had to do all they could to squeeze extra mpg where ever they could...and EPS is an extra half mpg or so. Its almost like they all got together and said, "we're all gonna have to do this so lets just start now." I don't think its coincidence that Porsche switched around the same time. They just seem to have done a better job of creating an electronic rack that manages to have a good feel to it. I think BMW will get there eventually.
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      06-06-2013, 01:47 PM   #19
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Honda was there two decades ago, first with the NSX and later with the S2000. EPS does not have to be bad, but ZF seems to be slow to figure that out.
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      06-10-2013, 12:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I cannot say I was ever overly impressed with my 1ers steering. On center feel was always a bit vague to me. Maybe it was that super slow 16-1 rack.

If the consensus is that the M235's steering may feel worse than a 135, that would probably break the deal for me.
If you think the 135i had vague on center feel, then test drive a 335i sport.
My 335i Msport's steering is very vague on center, near lifeless.
Heft is lighter than my 135i, but that's not the major issue, it's the lifeless steering. Yes, it's very direct and accurate but without much feel to what's happening. It's more video game like.
Comparing my 335i's steering to my former 135i, the 135i's steering was excellent.

I think what you suggested is true, it was the tall steering ratio.
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      06-10-2013, 12:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Honda was there two decades ago, first with the NSX and later with the S2000. EPS does not have to be bad, but ZF seems to be slow to figure that out.
Absolutely. The S2000 was highly praises for it's steering and over all feel.
It IS in the tuning.
Both the new Lexus IS350 and Caddy ATS have EPS and they don't get knocked at all for their steering and feel compared to what BMW did with the F30.

But it's highly unlikely that BMW hasn't heard owners and the press, and the 2's steering will likely be retuned.
BMW has already had a couple of revisions on the steering rack in the F30, and rumor has it that for 2014 models there will be yet another new rack.
Likely it will return some of that old BMW steering feel, hopefully.
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      06-10-2013, 01:30 AM   #22
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The E82 135i uses hydraulic power rack, but the steering feel suffers because of the very soft suspension bushings. Its not too hard to swap to M3 front arms and it makes a massive difference to the steering feel. Unfortunately while BMW are selling cars with run-flat tires and soft suspension bushings, the steering feel will always be compromised.
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