[JMK007]

So - I just got back from my first track event with my F30 328i. My set up was the bone stock sportline suspension, a stop tech BBK, and Nitto NT-01 245/40/18s; I ran the stock software. The event was through NASA Pro Racing at Gingerman Raceway in Michigan. I competed in TTD, which is a time trial event--the fastest lap around the track that day in your class.

Overall, I was quite pleased with the car's performance. Handling wise, turn in is very good for a stock suspension. The car definitely understeers when pushed hard at mid corner through corner exit. However, this can be minimized if you adjust your approach, which includes being more patient on throttle application. If you are too aggressive on the throttle, the back end squats, the front end raises and the car pushes badly. A properly tuned suspension (including camber plates) would really improve this. However, even in stock form, the car is very capable on track provided you are extra smooth with your inputs so as not to easily upset the car's balance. (Note: this illustrates why it is best to learn on a stock car, rather than a prepped one that masks driver errors.)

The engine was strong throughout the weekend. There was no significant drop in power toward the end of 20 minute sessions in hot humid weather. Unlike the e90 335i pitted next to me, there was also no limp mode! As everyone has attested before me, the F30 is really reliable on track. The car never seemed to struggle even when pushed very hard.

The transmission was smooth and deliberate. Braking was absolutely breathtaking with the stop tech 6 piston front, 4 piston rears. The electronic diff, on the other hand, was not terribly impressive. Particularly when going over any bumpy areas under hard acceleration, I could feel the LSD get upset and hesitate for a moment. In a timed event, this can be a killer. I was able to work around this by altering my line through a particularly rough area. A true LSD would really benefit this car. However, that does not mean you can't have a ball with the car in its current form.

Objectively speaking, the car probably performs better than you subjectively feel it is performing. Why do I say this? I competed last year in TTE with a Mark VI GTI at the same track with the same tires and stage 1 software that made that car pull like a freight train. Last year, I set the track record at Gingerman in TTE with the GTI in 1:54.03. When I finished the first session in the BMW in TTD, I pulled off track thinking I was probably a second slower than the GTI. In reality, I was over 2 seconds faster--which shocked the hell out of me. On the second day, I ran a 1:49.89; this is 1 second off track record set last year in TTD--and I am on a stock suspension. (Note: the FRS shattered the old track record this weekend by 2 seconds.) If I had coilovers and camber plates, which I can still run in this class, I am certain I could go 2 seconds faster. The point is the F30 is very, very capable--more capable than I even realized until I saw the times it is able to put done.

[mocohead]

Nice work and excellent report. Thank you very much for sharing!! Glad you enjoyed the car.

[Mahzari]

Amazing post. I'm glad I dug up this thread and read it. It's a shame that a real review and thought provoking post like this does not have more views and comments.

I have a black 328i Sport Line, too, but mine has the Sport Automatic. In Sport+ mode with Manual shifting, the car doesn't downshift or upshift without the driver shifting. This is the first automatic I came across that allows this level of control. With that being said, I feel that a lightly optioned 328i is as amazingly capable car. I don't have power seats, folding seats, or a sunroof, and I'm impressed daily by the capabilities of my car. I agree that (even for the road) my bushings and suspension are a bit on the softer side, but it does make you be accurate and think about every input you're giving the car.

[DVC]

Great review, JMK - thanks for sharing it.

[R12ax7]

Great report....i clicked this thread expecting to read the words "body roll" no less than a dozen times. Your point on this car being a bit more sensitive to less-than-smooth inputs is a very good one and something I am probably guilty of a lot of the times i feel the body roll is excessive (havent tracked mine at this point). Do you plan to do any suspension mods in the future?

[JMK007]

Thanks for the comments guys. I do plan on doing coilovers and camber plates. However, I won't do coilovers until quality camber plates come out first. Perhaps in another month or so...

[SergioK]

Awesome.

How'd you set the electronics? Did you run the event in Sport+? Did you disable DSC completely? (hold down DSC button for 10-15 seconds)

[JMK007]

Originally Posted by SergioK

Awesome.

How'd you set the electronics? Did you run the event in Sport+? Did you disable DSC completely? (hold down DSC button for 10-15 seconds)

I just ran in Sport +...was not aware you can completely disable by holding down DSC for 10-15 seconds. Is that also while in Sport + or in another mode? Please explain as I am very interested...

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by JMK007

I just ran in Sport +...was not aware you can completely disable by holding down DSC for 10-15 seconds. Is that also while in Sport + or in another mode? Please explain as I am very interested...

Oh man, when you said LSD I was wondering what you were talking about. I hate to be the one to say it and you're going to hate to hear it, but see page 105 of the owners manual http://www.f30post.com/goodiesforyou...al_F30POST.pdf

If it's any consolation, I did the same thing the first time I took my e46 to the track. It wasn't until the last session that the instructor pointed it out to me. Smart move on his part.

[Jamesons Viggen]

This is a great read. A lot of people make assumptions that the F30 is some terrible car on the track, inferior to past iterations because they read magazine articles instead of tracking the car themselves.

[JMK007]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Oh man, when you said LSD I was wondering what you were talking about. I hate to be the one to say it and you're going to hate to hear it, but see page 105 of the owners manual http://www.f30post.com/goodiesforyou...al_F30POST.pdf

If it's any consolation, I did the same thing the first time I took my e46 to the track. It wasn't until the last session that the instructor pointed it out to me. Smart move on his part.

My presumption has always been you can never fully turn off all electronic nannies on the F30, whether in Sport + or just DSC Off--though I may have been wrong in attributing certain things to the electronic LSD. If you can't fully turn off all stability control nannies, this is disappointing, BUT, I don't think the nannies kick in on Sport + until you are pretty far removed from the optimal / fastest slip angle. Indeed, I got pretty sideways last month on track before it kicked in--which meant I scrubbed off a lot of speed in the process. If I am right on this, the electronic nannies in Sport + will not slow you down--only attempt to prevent you from completely losing control.

The owners manual does not directly say if or how you can fully turn off all electronic stability control nannies. One may infer you can fully disengage all stability control nannies if you turn off DSC but it does not directly state this. Interestingly, it does say hold down DSC for no more than 10 seconds while Sergio K says hold down for 10 to 15 seconds. This brings me to my original proposition; I don't think you can fully disengage all stability control nannies on the F30. I hope someone can prove me wrong.

(Note: I don't want to get too off topic on this this thread. Perhaps we should continue discussing this matter in a new or existing thread like this one http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825869, as it is a very important topic. That is, if DSC Off is the only way to turn off all stability control nannies, how can you get the other benefits of Sport + like better steering feel, stiffer dampers, and quicker throttle response. Let's discuss this subject, though, in another thread.)

UPDATE: See the thread referenced in the paragraphs above. In short, try Sport (not sport +) and then turn off stability control. I think this setting gives us everything we want.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by JMK007

The owners manual does not directly say if or how you can fully turn off all electronic stability control nannies. One may infer you can fully disengage all stability control nannies if you turn off DSC but it does not directly state this. Interestingly, it does say hold down DSC for no more than 10 seconds while Sergio K says hold down for 10 to 15 seconds. This brings me to my original proposition; I don't think you can fully disengage all stability control nannies on the F30. I hope someone can prove me wrong.

So I think I owe you an apology. I see your retraction in the other thread too I hope this wasn't because of my comments.

This topic came up in a conversation I had yesterday with one of my instructors. He's competitive and also works for BMW, so I think I can trust his word. Sad thing is my original statement was based on something he told me a while back. Apparently I misunderstood him. In any event, here's the quote I got a couple days ago "Regarding the DSC, the DSC system is tied into the ABS system, in fact even if you completely disable, it still acts like as LSD slowing the spinning inside wheel when exiting a corner. "

BTW, my head is still spinning after reading that thread. I'm going to have to go through it again, but the thread seems to be mainly addressing those with automatics and the DH package. Like Sergio said I'd actually like to get rid of some of the throttle response. It seems to twitchy in sport. Not much room for neutral/partial throttle.

Finding out how this relates to Sport/Sport+ and the DCS button is confusing. Especially if you don't have the DHP and DSP.

[jbass524]

I just have a base model and have Sport only. I hold the button down or what seems like 3 seconds and I get the DSC fully off notification. The characteristics of DSC on all 3 states feels exactly like my E92 335 felt. Maybe I need to hold it down for an additional 7-12 seconds and there is a 4th state of DSC?

Anyway, I thought I should post my impressions from another thread here also as I ran with an interesting setup: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=22.

In short, the car is far better than expected and I feel there is a lot of promise for this platform, far more than the E92 non-M.

[MyFragileHalogen]

I drive a basemodel 328i. holding the button for about 4sec puts the car into sport mode+dsc off I think, which displays "DSC OFF." Holding it down more than about 10sec puts it back to comfort mode.
With the DSC OFF mode on, I spun out once at like 70mph (in which i got extremely lucky to not hit anything). While my car jerked right and left then spun 180degree, I didn't feel any stability control kicking in.

[evanescent03]

nice read, man! good to know the f30 can hang on the track. i noticed a couple levels of nanny control when i was at an autocross a few months back. i usually use my e46 m3 typically but am considering ditching that car and using the f30 since i'm only going 2-3x/year to the track. we have the non-line version so i'm not sure what things might be needed to get it up to speed (gotta look into what the sport line/msport have to make them more "track worthy").

thanks for the info!

matt

[evanescent03]

which transmission are you using? 8at with paddles? and which "line" did your car start out as? thank you!

matt

[kalib0y]

Thanks for the good review.

[JMK007]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

which transmission are you using? 8at with paddles? and which "line" did your car start out as? thank you!

matt

I have the Sportline with a manual transmission. If you are really serious about tracking the F30, I would start with the Sportline and modify from there with coilovers, camber plates and brakes. The Sportline gives you a better cooling system out of the box. The M sport is nice, I'm sure, but probably too soft if you are going to run R compound tires and don't want to overwhelm the suspension.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by JMK007

I have the Sportline with a manual transmission. If you are really serious about tracking the F30, I would start with the Sportline and modify from there with coilovers, camber plates and brakes. The Sportline gives you a better cooling system out of the box. The M sport is nice, I'm sure, but probably too soft if you are going to run R compound tires and don't want to overwhelm the suspension.

I'm confused. I thought M-Sport has the same suspension setup as the sportline?

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by JMK007

I have the Sportline with a manual transmission. If you are really serious about tracking the F30, I would start with the Sportline and modify from there with coilovers, camber plates and brakes. The Sportline gives you a better cooling system out of the box. The M sport is nice, I'm sure, but probably too soft if you are going to run R compound tires and don't want to overwhelm the suspension.

thanks for the input! I was afraid there may be more factors in there ... I may abandon the f30 campaign for an e90 m3.. should be a better dual-purpose car. I really like driving the f30 around town but, didn't consider using it as a track axe when we got it so just went for the more basic pkg.

thanks man, keep tearing it up out there!

Matt

[mtbnole]

any feedback from anyone who has taking a stock 328 sport/msport out? speifically regarding tires and breaks?

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by mtbnole

any feedback from anyone who has taking a stock 328 sport/msport out? speifically regarding tires and breaks?

I have, but I have an F31 (wagon, RWD). I have 225/255 tires and they were fine. Better tires would have been great though. I was not happy with the brakes. I felt there wasn't enough modulation and pedal feel, and it sapped my confidence quite a bit.

The handling was very neutral with no understeer (though I was more at 8/10ths) easily adjustable with the throttle and stupid amounts of grip. I mean just silly amounts. Power on brought the nose toward the apex and I just could not find any understeer worth mentioning. I think the M-sport suspension has a beefier rear sway bar compared to the sport line so maybe that made the difference.