BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-16-2013, 02:29 PM   #1
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
26
Rep
580
Posts

Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

M3 Sedan softer than M4 Coupe?

It seems that the consensus among journalists is that the standard (meaning non-M) F32 is a sharper, more sporty drive than the standard F30. I've also read that the current M6 is an around better drive than the M5.

I'm wondering whether BMW will follow suit with the M3 and M4. . .
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 02:46 PM   #2
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Since there will be no M4 GC the F80 will be the only 4 door F8X. It would be a hard slap in the face of us who need/want 4 doors if this is the case. I really see no reason to do this since there is no higher priced choice as is the case with the M5 vs M6 GC. The result if the M3 is softer is just an increased risk of alienate and losing customers. M3 buyers are looking for the best BMW has in terms of sportiness, not the 2nd best.

I don't think the M3 would get the CF roof if it was planned to be less sporty. Chances are it will actually have an edge over the M4 with the added structural rigidity from the B-pillars.

Last edited by solstice; 09-16-2013 at 02:52 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 02:53 PM   #3
XtoM
Private
XtoM's Avatar
United Kingdom
0
Rep
93
Posts

Drives: BMW M4. Soon......
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

I think BMW have decided that along with separating the coupe's from the saloons and tourers in the way they have in creating a new series they will be making the coupes a bit more performance oriented rather than just a different body style, early reviews of the 4 series say it is already apparent but it doesn't sound too extreme, possibly leaving room for the M4?..
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 03:34 PM   #4
Kuwen
Private First Class
3
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

With the sedan having to have the fender flares it does to accommodate the underpinnings of the M4/4 Series, would that not suggest they'd be effectively the same?
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #5
19x
Banned
19x's Avatar
United_States
460
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

iTrader: (1)

Historically, the e36 M3 sedan was stiffer than the coupe. The sedan was slightly harsher and handled slightly better in stock form due to more rigid rear chassis and reinforcements from the extra set of doors.

If that's any indication, then the F80 M3 may feel stiffer than the coupe.

People often wrongly assume that coupes offer better performance than sedans. And this couldn't be further from the truth when talking about BMW's.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #6
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
26
Rep
580
Posts

Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s54power View Post
People often wrongly assume that coupes offer better performance than sedans. And this couldn't be further from the truth when talking about BMW's.
I agree totally that historically, BMW's sedans were on par with its coupes. Based on what I've been reading about the F80/F82 and the M5/M6, that does not seem to be true now, however.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 10:16 PM   #7
turbolag
is nonexistent with N/A
turbolag's Avatar
21
Rep
1,126
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

I remember journalists saying the E90>E92 in handling because of the extra weight in the rear...
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 11:03 PM   #8
Holset
Captain
Sweden
267
Rep
625
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 Comp LCI
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

I read some interview with a BMW representative who said that the F32 4 series coupe is more rigid than the F30 3 series sedan and 60% more rigid than the old E92 3 series coupe.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 11:41 PM   #9
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
40317
Rep
21,232
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
I read some interview with a BMW representative who said that the F32 4 series coupe is more rigid than the F30 3 series sedan and 60% more rigid than the old E92 3 series coupe.
That's correct. See our 4 Series FAQ interview: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868647
__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2013, 11:53 PM   #10
19x
Banned
19x's Avatar
United_States
460
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

iTrader: (1)

But those are not M cars. Nearly everything about M cars was always different.

I can't see how the M4 would be any more performance oriented than the ballsy M3.
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2013, 08:11 AM   #11
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I've also read that the current M6 is an around better drive than the M5.
Perhaps, but it could be due to any number of factors. A check of part numbers would show the differences. Without facts, I am skeptical of claims like this.

Anyway, even if the M5 and M6 differ in suspension or steering setup or whatever else, I would expect the M3 and M4 to share just about all chassis components. Despite the name split, the 3 and 4 themselves have kept the commonalities that existed from last generation, and the M3 and M4 appear to be following suit.

I should add - differences these days can obviously be achieved with software due to active suspensions and variable steering assist. If those things prove to be different between the two cars, the aftermarket coders should be able to step in and give you what you want.
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #12
RMB
Captain
RMB's Avatar
United_States
97
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi TTRS
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Perhaps, but it could be due to any number of factors. A check of part numbers would show the differences. Without facts, I am skeptical of claims like this.

Anyway, even if the M5 and M6 differ in suspension or steering setup or whatever else, I would expect the M3 and M4 to share just about all chassis components. Despite the name split, the 3 and 4 themselves have kept the commonalities that existed from last generation, and the M3 and M4 appear to be following suit.

I should add - differences these days can obviously be achieved with software due to active suspensions and variable steering assist. If those things prove to be different between the two cars, the aftermarket coders should be able to step in and give you what you want.
That's kind of what I was thinking. I am under the impression right now that beneath the skin of the new M3 and M4 they are pretty much identical. I think performance wise they will be the same.
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2013, 10:29 AM   #13
Holset
Captain
Sweden
267
Rep
625
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 Comp LCI
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
That's correct. See our 4 Series FAQ interview: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868647
Yes thats were i got the info from.
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2013, 11:53 PM   #14
IS3andME
Major
482
Rep
1,189
Posts

Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Since there will be no M4 GC the F80 will be the only 4 door F8X. It would be a hard slap in the face of us who need/want 4 doors if this is the case. I really see no reason to do this since there is no higher priced choice as is the case with the M5 vs M6 GC. The result if the M3 is softer is just an increased risk of alienate and losing customers. M3 buyers are looking for the best BMW has in terms of sportiness, not the 2nd best.

I don't think the M3 would get the CF roof if it was planned to be less sporty. Chances are it will actually have an edge over the M4 with the added structural rigidity from the B-pillars.
Is that a definite? Didn't Scott26 said that they'd consider it? What is the scoop now?
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2013, 06:46 AM   #15
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Is that a definite? Didn't Scott26 said that they'd consider it? What is the scoop now?
When it comes to prediction future products, nothing is definite. If you search the forums you'll find threads discussing the end of the M3 sedan with no replacement planned after the E90. We know how that ended.

That being said, the fact that the M3 receives the M4 front end has really put a wrinkle in things. Recall that the M5 features a front end treatment similar to the 5 Series counterpart rather than sharing one with the M6 range. Also, while the M5 has no CF roof, the M3 does. So this is a further place that could have allowed for differentiation between an M3 and M4 GC, but instead it will not be.

Still, clearly the lack of M4 GC will leave an artificial hole in the lineup. I suspect that BMW will get a lot of customers asking them to build one. We'll have to see if they respond.
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2013, 10:07 AM   #16
nilfinite
Private First Class
22
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: F83 M4 & E89 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

By comparing the M5 / M6, the two are very similar in terms of performance. They didn't have to differentiate performance too much simply because the M6 is more unique / different than the M5.

I'm guessing since the M3 / M4 will look similar, they'll differentiate a little in terms of standard features on the M4 vs the M3. Maybe wheels? I can't imagine BMW going out of their way in change the performance of the two cars. They already have the ZCP to think about.
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2013, 12:17 PM   #17
ixse
Major
238
Rep
1,022
Posts

Drives: 2015 boxster s
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

i would think m3 will be already stiff enough. if they make m4 even harder it would be too harsh. if anything maybe they might program "extra firm" mode on adaptive suspension set up on m4.
chasis wise im sure m4 is bit stiffer by design.
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2013, 08:56 AM   #18
nonagon
Captain
nonagon's Avatar
United_States
113
Rep
777
Posts

Drives: Porsche Cayenne GTS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arlington VA

iTrader: (0)

Obviously everything's a guess, but M4's lower center of gravity plus the minor (like 25lb) lower weight would give it a slight edge in performance even if the underpinnings and tech are identical. I also think the difference would be negligible to most drivers.
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #19
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonagon View Post
Obviously everything's a guess, but M4's lower center of gravity plus the minor (like 25lb) lower weight would give it a slight edge in performance even if the underpinnings and tech are identical. I also think the difference would be negligible to most drivers.
Agree.

BMW would be scoring an epic own goal if they differentiated performance between the M3 and M4. The only real difference between M4 and M3 drivers is that there are those of us who have families or other practical concerns that make a coupe a non-starter. But still want all the performance the M3 is famous for.

I emphatically believe they will not engineer any performance difference in but the coupe will have a slight edge due to the factors mentioned by nonagon.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #20
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24829
Rep
22,228
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Until tires are put to pavement everything is conjecture.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2013, 03:15 PM   #21
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

My sedan is faster than your coupe. My coupe is also faster than your sedan. Says the faster driver.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST