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09-29-2013, 01:47 AM | #1 |
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BMW Electronic turbocharger patent 2011 and F80 M4 "pre tensioned" technology
Is it the same thing? I was expecting a turbo package with more bulk in it compared to the pictures I have seen of the F80 M4 turbos.
Here's the original post and image about the patent: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=597327
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09-29-2013, 01:50 AM | #2 |
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Here's the image:
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09-29-2013, 02:47 AM | #3 |
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There are front view images as well (@ http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746).
It's clear from the images that there seems to be no electric aid. |
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10-18-2013, 11:56 AM | #5 |
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Yes by definition it would be an electrokinetic supercharged turbocharger. It's really hybrid technology.
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10-18-2013, 12:00 PM | #6 |
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I thought that the pre-tensioned turbines were really just turbines that were somehow kept spinning at relatively high speeds even when off-throttle or on light-throttle through a different management of the exhaust gases during those situations (i.e. turbines are kept spinning faster but pressure is vented to prevent boost build-up in more situations)
I'm not saying I knew how BMW accomplished this supposed task, I'm just saying my interpretation of their statements seemed to indicate they are doing something different to pre-spool |
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10-18-2013, 12:30 PM | #7 | |
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The patent concept however is something completely different. Here's Mercedes 2014 Formula One - Hybrid Turbo V6 Engine. Mercedes employs an electrokinetic turbo in the same way as the BMW patent concept. I can't wait to have this on my M car.
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10-18-2013, 12:36 PM | #8 |
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I cant see this tech being cheap enough to put into these cars without raising the price substantially. My vote goes to increased flow efficiency/ some sort of wastegate management to keep blades spinning. Somehow keep the pressure up in the exhaust manifold while off throttle.
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10-24-2013, 08:46 AM | #9 | |
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Come to think about it, I can't think of any currently used formula 1 technology that is not implemented in modern performance cars: Active aero - MacLaren P1/MP4-12c, Ferrari LaFerrari/458 Speciale/F12, Porsche 991 GT3 Carbon fibre - F40, E46/92 & F80 M3/M4, and you name it Hybrid drive trains - MacLaren P1, Ferrari Lafferari Computer controlled clutch/differential/suspension/engine: Too many specific examples
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Drives: 2010 E70 X5M Carbonschwarz Loved and lost: 07 E92 M3 Silverstone II / 96 E36 M3 Evo Estoril Blue / 07 E84 Z4 M Coupe Interlagos Blue Last edited by saxonb; 10-26-2013 at 12:57 PM.. |
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10-24-2013, 12:10 PM | #10 | |
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Computer controlled suspension (active suspension) is illegal in F1. However I agree that racing is a good testing and development area for manufacturers, but today mostly used for marketing purposes... |
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10-26-2013, 12:51 PM | #11 | ||
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The William's F15 C in 1992 did have electronic/active suspension: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW15C Quote:
A 500g flywheel at 20,000rpm could be very powerful by my estimate.
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10-26-2013, 03:42 PM | #12 | ||
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Not sure if the points you make about hybrid turbo systems are aimed at my comments? I am a big fan of next years hybrid turbo tech, but that is also nothing new. Garrett did a lot of research on hybrid turbos (turbo with a EGM, or Electric Generator Motor) about 5-10 years ago. However it hasn't been seen in mainstream production, and perhaps that is where F1 can help in this case. BMW also filed a patent wich involves turbos with EGM tech. Hybrid systems like KERS in F1 is also nothing new: Quote:
BTW, the F1 KERS flywheel rotate at over 60.000rpm's... http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html The FW15C was a very technologically advanced car, however it did not represent any brand new hitherto unknown tech. It simply was the most technically advanced F1 car in history by adapting some old and some more recent tech, never seen in F1 before, but seen outside of F1 for some time. Double Clutch Transmission in the M3 and M5, no connection with F1 at all. But considered one of the big improvements over the E60 M5 SMG transmission (which incidentally is closer to F1 tech...). So, even though F1 is a great arena to test and develop technology, very little brand new tech is actually invented there... |
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10-26-2013, 05:46 PM | #13 |
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Most of the time we never truely know who was the original inventor. We know the patent holder or thief. We dont keep track of whos mind is the first to think of an idea. Its the first to act. I give a lot of credit to the people who actually make the product work and useable. There is no argument racing is where car technology is developed into useable engineering.
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10-27-2013, 01:52 AM | #14 | |
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My comment on reduction in costs was not aimed at you but other comments suggesting that hybrid turbo tech cannot be made economic for production performance cars. My point was only that with a few notable exceptions, basically all technology ever used in F1 has been used or is still being used in production performance cars, it wasn't that F1 invented all performance technologies. FYI I found that Mitsubishi HI is producing a marine hybrid turbocharger: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/08/31...arger-to-gene/ Also there's Aeristech, Garrett, BorgWarner and Valeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_turbocharger
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10-27-2013, 02:16 AM | #15 | |
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I also entirely reject the notion of intellectual property. All knowledge is derived and therefore exclusive claims over third parties for ideas that can be independently arrived at is just pure stealing. Straight up. The patent holder is the thief.
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10-27-2013, 03:37 AM | #16 | |
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I completely agree with what you said as well as with buildbrights comments. |
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