Negative experience at Elite BMW in Ottawa

rezadue · 04-01-2014, 08:31 AM

Below is a verbatim copy of the email I sent the General Sales Manager at Elite, with the exception that I have removed the sales person's name from the email. I sent this email as feedback, not so that I would gain anything from it, but so that they are aware of my experience and its consequence for me as it pertains to future customers:

Recently, we received several emails, a couple of letters in the mail , and finally a phone call from BMW with respect to VIP sales at Elite BMW. All of these various forms of communications have been used by BMW to encourage us to bring my wife’s 2011 328 X-Drive in for an early trade, promising VIP treatment and great deals.

After the last phone call to my wife, she and I made an appointment to come in to see what you have to offer and whether there was a suitable car for her as an early trade in. Over the last dozen years or so, my wife and I have purchased/leased a total of 5 BMWs from you and Otto’s (4 from Elite and 1 from Otto’s – Otto’s only because you did not have a certified 335Xi on hand at the time I was looking for one – and I traded that car to you to get into my current 2013 328 X-Drive). Additionally, I have always spoken highly of your dealership, and last year I brought both my sister and her husband in personally, and as a result both now own and drive BMWs. Almost every one of our cars at your dealerships were purchased through Brian Vachon with whom we have had a really good relationship.

As Brian is no longer with the dealership we were greeted by J**** who is personable guy. He went through the inventory and showed us a list of cars available, from which we settled on a car. While out for the test drive of the car, my wife’s 2011 was evaluated for a trade in. Upon return to the dealership we were told that we would have to pay you $1500 for the early return of her car, followed by MSRP for the new vehicle…. So much for a “VIP” sale.

I mentioned to J**** that early trade in did not make sense and, and I did not consider this a VIP sale, as we could just wait a year and not have to pay the $1500, and could get a good deal on a new car (not even disputing his valuation). To which his response was “ Oh yeah, you are right”. I expect that a good sales person to already know that. And I expect that he is a good sales person. I also expect that your sales staff know buyers generally have some awareness of such facts!

After discussing this with him, he asked what we wanted and I said as a first order I don’t want to have to pay this $1500. He said he would go “check” to see what he could do, and after spending 10 minutes or so in the office he came back to say he had “good” news. He could get rid of the $1500. As a foot note he added that we only have to make one small modification. The lease term would have to be adjusted from 24000 km/yr to $20000/yr. When I asked what it would cost to get the lease back to $24000 km/yr he replied $20/month. $20/month is $960 over the term of the 48 month lease. So in fact he did not get rid of the $1500. He just tried to hide nearly $1000 of it in the lease term. I told him that we would not be doing this deal. He said he would go back and see “what else” he could do. At this point I have no choice but to wonder if I have given the impression that I can’t add and subtract!

Next we have another person named M****** who came to “ see what we wanted and what could be done to make a deal happen”. I explained the situation and said “Long story short, if I go to Toronto I can get between 6% to 7% off MSRP on a lease with no problems” This amount to approximately $3000+. This is not even arguing your assessment of the trade in value (which is debatable too). So in fact not only do I want $1500 from the trade in to go away, I would like $1500 off the MSRP of the new car. He went back to an office which now had 4 people in it. After 15+ minutes we told them we had appointments and had to go. They could do the numbers and could give us a call.

Later in the evening, I got a call from J****, who told me he had good news and we could do the deal and proceed to tell us the car is ready, but this time he mentioned a car which was different than the one we have agreed on and was going to get. The car we picked had metallic paint. This car did not! As you are aware BMW charges nearly $1000 for metallic paint. So in effect your sales person tried to hide $1000 of the $1500 I asked off the MSRP by changing paint jobs to a new car.

As a returning customer who is about to buy his/her 6th BMW, almost all of which were bought from you, and as a customer who has brought in new business to you as well I expected better treatment. That is even before the promised VIP treatment. Not only did we not get VIP treatment, we were treated as if we were gullible. Both my wife and I have found this recent experience extremely disappointing and somewhat insulting, the result of which is that not only will we not be buying/leasing a new car from you now, you have lost us as future clients. Further I will certainly share my experience with friends and family who might be in the market for a BMW so that they are aware of what they can expect.

An hour ago when picking up my wife’s car from routine service I ran into J**** who asked what I thought about the trade and I said we would not be buying that car, or another car from Elite. He asked why. Unfortunately I did not have time to discuss it with him as I had to run back to the office. But I thought I would send you this email as a way of explain why and giving feedback from a former customer. Hopefully future repeat customers will have a different experience.

Dan_335i · 04-01-2014, 09:07 AM

Hey

I also purchased my car from elite from brian also. What happened to brian? And was your sales person you were talking to jason? Yes all sale men are sleezy

335BOY · 04-01-2014, 09:16 AM

Cool story but anybody that thinks there is value in these "VIP early trade" deals is naive. These cars are never worth what resid claims so there is obviously a cost to early exit. I guess they lost a customer over a foolish "offer" but I'm surprised you fell for that. 1 phone call would have shown you how it works....it doesnt. They are depending on you falling in love with a new car. Too bad for both parties .

rezadue · 04-01-2014, 10:02 AM

Apparently Brian has retired.

With respect to the second observation, I certainly went in with my eyes open. BUT, I found it silly for them to try to get me to pay based on their initial valuation combined with paying MSRP. That ain't happening!

And when I called them on it, they tried twice to cover the cost up by changing things up in the hopes I would not notice it. What I expected was "Hey, we don't think we can get to your numbers. This is what we can do" as opposed to "Hey I got it to where you said" when it fact it was an out and out lie!

F87_LCI · 04-01-2014, 10:45 AM

Car Salesman (or women) are like any other group of people in this world. A few are great, most are good and unfortunately some are poor. Looks like you had a good/great one and now you found a poor one. You did the right thing in sending a mail to the owners. Maybe they change, maybe they don't, but at least they know they have lost a customer. Move on. There are still some good/great sales guys/gals out there.

335BOY · 04-01-2014, 12:12 PM

Too bad he wasnt straight with you. They are just trying to lure people into the showroom but this is a well known ploy. Whenever I get those letters or emails i make a call . Usually takes care of it unfortunately. The only exception was an ad i saw in our paper many years ago looking for pre-owned coupes. I took my 2 yr old 323ci in and they bought it out.....went straight back to Audi.

dpwr · 04-04-2014, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Cool story but anybody that thinks there is value in these "VIP early trade" deals is naive. These cars are never worth what resid claims so there is obviously a cost to early exit. I guess they lost a customer over a foolish "offer" but I'm surprised you fell for that. 1 phone call would have shown you how it works....it doesnt. They are depending on you falling in love with a new car. Too bad for both parties .

yeah i agree, I think OP is over reacting... they're sales people, that's how they operate, you should of known this from walking in

shag · 04-09-2014, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpwr

yeah i agree, I think OP is over reacting... they're sales people, that's how they operate, you should of known this from walking in

Ya think? Wow, what kind of CA's do you have in Ontario? I can't believe they're selling cars using tactics like that.

But then again, this is an enthusiast forum - I know more about VO codes than my CA...

TheWhiteStig · 04-11-2014, 02:43 PM

Unfortunately there're not many choices in Ottawa in terms of car dealership. I switched from Otto to Elite with similar story like yours. The previous salesman I had with Otto moved on to Lexus and someone picked up my file; kept trying to sell us their inventory instead of ordering exactly what we wanted, and offered no discount. So... switched over to Elite and was lucky enough to deal with Larry Blais. Very nice guy to deal with, straight to the point and we closed the deal in 15 minutes (we weren't paying MSRP of course

). I'd say give Elite another chance, talk to Larry when you're ready for your next BMW.

As for J****, I think he switched back and fore between Otto and Elite in the last few years, I've seen him at both places; not sure how he ended up being an "Assistant Manager" at Elite.

rezadue · 04-11-2014, 07:47 PM

I dont believe I am over reacting. I have no patience for people who treat others like they are idiots. I totally understand sales tactics, but I expect the sales person to dial it back when you call him on his bull****.

If I have bought a fair number of cars from you and brought you new customers, you need to treat me well. That is all.

In any case I thought I would share my experience as more of an informative post for others who may deal with the same dealership and/or sales person.

And BTW, my letter to their GM went unanswered. Another sign that they place no value in me as a customer.

04-01-2014, 08:31 AM	#1
rezadue Two turbos are better than one! 119 Rep 404 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M4 ZCP Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ottawa, Ontario iTrader: (0)	Negative experience at Elite BMW in Ottawa Below is a verbatim copy of the email I sent the General Sales Manager at Elite, with the exception that I have removed the sales person's name from the email. I sent this email as feedback, not so that I would gain anything from it, but so that they are aware of my experience and its consequence for me as it pertains to future customers: Recently, we received several emails, a couple of letters in the mail , and finally a phone call from BMW with respect to VIP sales at Elite BMW. All of these various forms of communications have been used by BMW to encourage us to bring my wife’s 2011 328 X-Drive in for an early trade, promising VIP treatment and great deals. After the last phone call to my wife, she and I made an appointment to come in to see what you have to offer and whether there was a suitable car for her as an early trade in. Over the last dozen years or so, my wife and I have purchased/leased a total of 5 BMWs from you and Otto’s (4 from Elite and 1 from Otto’s – Otto’s only because you did not have a certified 335Xi on hand at the time I was looking for one – and I traded that car to you to get into my current 2013 328 X-Drive). Additionally, I have always spoken highly of your dealership, and last year I brought both my sister and her husband in personally, and as a result both now own and drive BMWs. Almost every one of our cars at your dealerships were purchased through Brian Vachon with whom we have had a really good relationship. As Brian is no longer with the dealership we were greeted by J** who is personable guy. He went through the inventory and showed us a list of cars available, from which we settled on a car. While out for the test drive of the car, my wife’s 2011 was evaluated for a trade in. Upon return to the dealership we were told that we would have to pay you $1500 for the early return of her car, followed by MSRP for the new vehicle…. So much for a “VIP” sale. I mentioned to J that early trade in did not make sense and, and I did not consider this a VIP sale, as we could just wait a year and not have to pay the $1500, and could get a good deal on a new car (not even disputing his valuation). To which his response was “ Oh yeah, you are right”. I expect that a good sales person to already know that. And I expect that he is a good sales person. I also expect that your sales staff know buyers generally have some awareness of such facts! After discussing this with him, he asked what we wanted and I said as a first order I don’t want to have to pay this $1500. He said he would go “check” to see what he could do, and after spending 10 minutes or so in the office he came back to say he had “good” news. He could get rid of the $1500. As a foot note he added that we only have to make one small modification. The lease term would have to be adjusted from 24000 km/yr to $20000/yr. When I asked what it would cost to get the lease back to $24000 km/yr he replied $20/month. $20/month is $960 over the term of the 48 month lease. So in fact he did not get rid of the $1500. He just tried to hide nearly $1000 of it in the lease term. I told him that we would not be doing this deal. He said he would go back and see “what else” he could do. At this point I have no choice but to wonder if I have given the impression that I can’t add and subtract! Next we have another person named M** who came to “ see what we wanted and what could be done to make a deal happen”. I explained the situation and said “Long story short, if I go to Toronto I can get between 6% to 7% off MSRP on a lease with no problems” This amount to approximately $3000+. This is not even arguing your assessment of the trade in value (which is debatable too). So in fact not only do I want $1500 from the trade in to go away, I would like $1500 off the MSRP of the new car. He went back to an office which now had 4 people in it. After 15+ minutes we told them we had appointments and had to go. They could do the numbers and could give us a call. Later in the evening, I got a call from J, who told me he had good news and we could do the deal and proceed to tell us the car is ready, but this time he mentioned a car which was different than the one we have agreed on and was going to get. The car we picked had metallic paint. This car did not! As you are aware BMW charges nearly $1000 for metallic paint. So in effect your sales person tried to hide $1000 of the $1500 I asked off the MSRP by changing paint jobs to a new car. As a returning customer who is about to buy his/her 6th BMW, almost all of which were bought from you, and as a customer who has brought in new business to you as well I expected better treatment. That is even before the promised VIP treatment. Not only did we not get VIP treatment, we were treated as if we were gullible. Both my wife and I have found this recent experience extremely disappointing and somewhat insulting, the result of which is that not only will we not be buying/leasing a new car from you now, you have lost us as future clients. Further I will certainly share my experience with friends and family who might be in the market for a BMW so that they are aware of what they can expect. An hour ago when picking up my wife’s car from routine service I ran into J** who asked what I thought about the trade and I said we would not be buying that car, or another car from Elite. He asked why. Unfortunately I did not have time to discuss it with him as I had to run back to the office. But I thought I would send you this email as a way of explain why and giving feedback from a former customer. Hopefully future repeat customers will have a different experience.
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04-01-2014, 09:07 AM	#2
Dan_335i Captain 102 Rep 936 Posts Drives: 2014 335i EBII MSport Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: toronto iTrader: (0)	Hey I also purchased my car from elite from brian also. What happened to brian? And was your sales person you were talking to jason? Yes all sale men are sleezy
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04-01-2014, 09:16 AM	#3
335BOY Colonel 197 Rep 2,802 Posts Drives: 2017 SQ5 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Cool story but anybody that thinks there is value in these "VIP early trade" deals is naive. These cars are never worth what resid claims so there is obviously a cost to early exit. I guess they lost a customer over a foolish "offer" but I'm surprised you fell for that. 1 phone call would have shown you how it works....it doesnt. They are depending on you falling in love with a new car. Too bad for both parties .
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04-01-2014, 10:02 AM	#4
rezadue Two turbos are better than one! 119 Rep 404 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M4 ZCP Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ottawa, Ontario iTrader: (0)	Apparently Brian has retired. With respect to the second observation, I certainly went in with my eyes open. BUT, I found it silly for them to try to get me to pay based on their initial valuation combined with paying MSRP. That ain't happening! And when I called them on it, they tried twice to cover the cost up by changing things up in the hopes I would not notice it. What I expected was "Hey, we don't think we can get to your numbers. This is what we can do" as opposed to "Hey I got it to where you said" when it fact it was an out and out lie!
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04-01-2014, 10:45 AM	#5
F87_LCI Lieutenant Colonel 1787 Rep 1,718 Posts Drives: 2018 LBB F87 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North iTrader: (1)	Car Salesman (or women) are like any other group of people in this world. A few are great, most are good and unfortunately some are poor. Looks like you had a good/great one and now you found a poor one. You did the right thing in sending a mail to the owners. Maybe they change, maybe they don't, but at least they know they have lost a customer. Move on. There are still some good/great sales guys/gals out there.
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04-01-2014, 12:12 PM	#6
335BOY Colonel 197 Rep 2,802 Posts Drives: 2017 SQ5 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Too bad he wasnt straight with you. They are just trying to lure people into the showroom but this is a well known ploy. Whenever I get those letters or emails i make a call . Usually takes care of it unfortunately. The only exception was an ad i saw in our paper many years ago looking for pre-owned coupes. I took my 2 yr old 323ci in and they bought it out.....went straight back to Audi.
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04-11-2014, 02:43 PM	#9
TheWhiteStig Tame Racing Driver 4 Rep 69 Posts Drives: 428i Sportline Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	Unfortunately there're not many choices in Ottawa in terms of car dealership. I switched from Otto to Elite with similar story like yours. The previous salesman I had with Otto moved on to Lexus and someone picked up my file; kept trying to sell us their inventory instead of ordering exactly what we wanted, and offered no discount. So... switched over to Elite and was lucky enough to deal with Larry Blais. Very nice guy to deal with, straight to the point and we closed the deal in 15 minutes (we weren't paying MSRP of course ). I'd say give Elite another chance, talk to Larry when you're ready for your next BMW. As for J****, I think he switched back and fore between Otto and Elite in the last few years, I've seen him at both places; not sure how he ended up being an "Assistant Manager" at Elite.
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04-11-2014, 07:47 PM	#10
rezadue Two turbos are better than one! 119 Rep 404 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M4 ZCP Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ottawa, Ontario iTrader: (0)	I dont believe I am over reacting. I have no patience for people who treat others like they are idiots. I totally understand sales tactics, but I expect the sales person to dial it back when you call him on his bull****. If I have bought a fair number of cars from you and brought you new customers, you need to treat me well. That is all. In any case I thought I would share my experience as more of an informative post for others who may deal with the same dealership and/or sales person. And BTW, my letter to their GM went unanswered. Another sign that they place no value in me as a customer.
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