[stevehecht]

I've been researching this for the past hour and I just want to make sure I understand it correctly.

Engine oils for cars running on U.S. high sulphur fuels must be graded by BMW as LL-01. This includes both gas and diesel. The oils that meet this standard are:

1) Castrol Edge (used to be called Syntec) European Formula 0w-30
2) Mobil 1 0w-40
3) Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra 5w-30
4) Valvoline SynPower 5w-30

Does anyone have information that this listing is incorrect? Any additions or changes that you would suggest? Any favorites in the above list? I realize that oil changes are covered by new car warranty. But I like to carry a liter around with me just in case.

[glangford]

These are NOT for diesel. This is the list for gas cars. Of that list I used the Castrol 0-30 in my mini. For diesel get the Castrol OE 5-30. The dealer sells it exclusively for diesel. VW dealers also sell it.

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by glangford

These are NOT for diesel. This is the list for gas cars. Of that list I used the Castrol 0-30 in my mini. For diesel get the Castrol OE 5-30. The dealer sells it exclusively for diesel. VW dealers also sell it.

You're correct. Here is the right stuff FOR DIESEL ENGINES that's the same that's used in the dealerships:

Castrol Edge Professional 5w-30


Meets API Service SM/CF
Meets ACEA C3 requirements
Meets BMW Longlife - 04 standards
Meets VW 502.00/505.00/505.01
MB 229.51 requirements
Part number: 07 51 0 037 195
Price: $ 8.95

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

I've been researching this for the past hour and I just want to make sure I understand it correctly.

Engine oils for cars running on U.S. high sulphur fuels must be graded by BMW as LL-01. This includes both gas and diesel. The oils that meet this standard are:

1) Castrol Edge (used to be called Syntec) European Formula 0w-30
2) Mobil 1 0w-40
3) Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra 5w-30
4) Valvoline SynPower 5w-30

Does anyone have information that this listing is incorrect? Any additions or changes that you would suggest? Any favorites in the above list? I realize that oil changes are covered by new car warranty. But I like to carry a liter around with me just in case.

These are also BMW LL-01:
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40
QUAKER STATE® ULTIMATE DURABILITY EUROPEAN 5W‐40 FULLY SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL (sorry their caps from the tech sheet)

[chiefneil]

Forgot to mention a couple Redlines are also BMW LL-01 (their 5w40 and 0w40). I think it was Mike Miller from Roundel's Tech Talk who said Redline should be in its own separate category above every other oil on the market. I wouldn't bother with it for a street car, but if I was a track junkie that's probably what I'd use.

edit: After the exchange below with m6pwr I went and had a closer look at Redline's website. Their oil says, "Recommended for BMW LL-01", not "Meets or exceeds BMW LL-01". So I believe he's correct that Redline is not actually officially tested/certified/whatever.

Also don't forget to add BMW's own High Performance Synthetic Oil in 5w30 to your list.

[m6pwr]

Mike Miller should stick to wrenching, which is something he knows about, and leave lube science to others. There was a thread sometime ago on the oil forum BITOG, started by a mechanic/tech, which basically said to never ask a tech about oil - - they know next to nothing about it and instead purvey all the old (disproven) myths and old wives tales about oil.

Twenty years or so ago, group V ester base oils, like Redline, stood head and shoulders above your dino based products and the other run of the mill synthetics on the market. Not so much today, but Redline has been living off that halo effect for years. There have been tremendous advances in lubrication science in the past twenty years. You don't see ester base oils abound today because the cars, even high performance cars, DON"T NEED THEM. Of course some folks use them for peace of mind.

For myself, I use a very high quality, ultra soft and pliable toilet tissue made in France that costs three times as much as the toilet paper you buy at Costco. It even has the Mercedes three-pointed star embossed on each panel. I don'y know why, it's hard to explain, but it gives me an extra measure of satisfaction using it sitting on the throne after reading the latest issue of the ROUNDEL.

By the way, no Redline oil carries the BMW license or specific BMW LL01 approval. Redline claims that their oil meets or exceeds BMW's spec. It may be true, but it's not the same as actually being tested by BMW and being given BMW LL01 approval. I often wonder how redline KNOWS their oils meet or exceed BMW LL01.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by m6pwr

By the way, no Redline oil carries the BMW license or specific BMW LL01 approval. Redline claims that their oil meets or exceeds BMW's spec. It may be true, but it's not the same as actually being tested by BMW and being given BMW LL01 approval. I often wonder how redline KNOWS their oils meet or exceed BMW LL01.

I've always assumed that specs are published, and manufacturers can test to the spec. Are you saying that BMW does not publish their LL-01 spec, and manufacturers have to request certification from BMW?

In the case of the Pennzoil and QS that I mentioned, their data sheets say "Meets or exceeds BMW-LL01". It sounds like you're saying claims from manufacturers are completely worthless and only an official BMW list would have merit? No such (recent) official list comes up when I google, although I did find a list from 2007. BMW also does not publish a list in the owner's manual - they just say to use an oil that meets their spec. It would seem to be a significant liability risk for a company to claim conformance with a spec when it either doesn't actually conform or have solid documentation of conformance.

BTW I don't necessarily disagree with what you said about Mike Miller. I've thought the same thing about his oil change schedule for years.

[m6pwr]

I certainly don't think Redline oils are worthless. But I don't personally care for the fudge words they use in their advertising/marketing literature. Words like "meets or exceeds xxx" or "recommended for cars requiring BMW LL01". I'm not even sure Redline oils carry the API "donut" signifying they have been API certified to meet their standards. It really doesn't make any difference as long as the consumer is not deceived, or doesn't care one way or the other. Does BMW NA care?

Getting all these mfr approvals or "licenses" cost the oil maker money. Companies like Exxon/Mobil easily have the wherewithal and technical expertise to get these "certs". Look at the diversity of approvals that Mobil 1 0w40 or Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 carry. So you might excuse a niche oil maker like Redline for not going to that expense. On the other hand some boutique oil mfrs do, and are quite proud to advertise accordingly -- http://www.top1oil.com/USA/newsletter/2011/July.pdf

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

...
Engine oils for cars running on U.S. high sulphur fuels must be graded by BMW as LL-01. This includes both gas and diesel. The oils that meet this standard are:...

The diesel engines must use LL-04. US Diesel is low-sulfur (15 ppm versus 10 ppm for EU diesel. US/CA gasoline is as much as 200 ppm sulfur).

The list you included is a very old list and hasn't been updated by BMW since E46 days. There are MANY more oils that meet LL-01 than that. Look at: http://www.europeancarweb.com/news/e...s/viewall.html and http://www.auto-treff.com/bmw/vb/sho...d.php?t=112358 for lists (mostly on the European oils); note that the lists are almost 10 years old but are more extensive than BMW's list. For instance, Kendall sells an LL-01 oil, as does Pentosin, and many others.