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      05-11-2014, 06:23 PM   #1
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Moving on

I've been driving BMW 5 Series since the mid-80s. By the time I could afford an M, I was also driving Porsches and could not justify a 911 and an M5, so I always stuck with the lesser 5ers. But, when BMW announced that the F10 was the last M5 with a stick, I just had to buy one. Within a couple of days, I knew I had made a mistake.

I love driving MTs, but in my (old and experienced) opinion, the six speed is a total mis-match with this M5's engine. I understand now that the DCT is the only way to go with this car.

But the size and weight of the F10 are also incredibly troubling for me. They say some cars "drive smaller than they are." To me, the F10 M5 drives bigger than it is. There's just no way to get around carrying 4,400+ lbs around with you. And each generation's added a couple inches of length, width and turning radius make driving one around a congested northeast city like Boston more and more difficult.

So after only 15 months, I traded my first and only M, and am going back to a 911 (along with my S4 "winter beater"). It's been a long, long time since I haven't owned a BMW and I'm sure I'll be back. Just don't know when or which car.

I know I'll continue to lurk the BMW forums. Safe (and fun) driving to you all.

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      05-11-2014, 06:42 PM   #2
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Agree on weight and completely agree on MT for this car (I'm a die hard MT fan). Nonetheless the M5 is amazing performance for a family sedan.

It's funny as Porsche beards lament the same demise of the 911 in 991 guise. Of course, same commentary with water cooled vs. air cooled, etc. The 991 is certainly the sexiest iteration IMO. Which variant did you go with? 7MT or PDK?

Congrats again!
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      05-11-2014, 07:00 PM   #3
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While I don't begrudge you your opinion on the M5 one bit, I just came from an E92 M3 and I'm enjoying this M5 like no car before it. Tons of luxury and, of course, tons of torque have made for a fun vehicle.
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      05-11-2014, 07:34 PM   #4
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Best of luck. Not sure why anyone would get the M5 with an MT....?

The M5 is not meant for track use...or whipping around like a race car... Of course all of this is just my opinion.

The M5 is an executive sedan with comfort and luxury and power. It can be a daily driver, with 4 doors and some practicality. I'd never use it for a 'toy' / weekend only car personally. Just my .02.

Have fun with that P-car! Love the new 991!
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      05-11-2014, 07:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers View Post
Which variant did you go with? 7MT or PDK?
As good as the DCT is, I think that Porsche's PDK is even better. But, Porsche (at least until now) has remained committed to the MT. And the 7MT is as good as ever, so I stuck with it.

I'm ready to give up the manual when I have to, but with the 911, I don't have to give it up quite yet!
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      05-11-2014, 08:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
The M5 is an executive sedan with comfort and luxury and power.
Of course you're right. But I'm not a track guy or a boy racer. I'm not looking for a toy. But quite honestly, my S4 is more fun to drive than my M5 was. That was a surprise and disappointment.

I describe the M5 as a really fast, well-handling 7 Series. And I don't think that's what an M5 ever used to be.

btw, I'm not looking to be a contrarian. No one loves BMWs more than I do. This one just wasn't right for me.
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      05-11-2014, 08:29 PM   #7
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I don't think you can compare a 911 to an M5. Two totally different cars.

I have the new M5 and just picked up a new TTS. I love my M5 has a family sedan. I do wish it were AWD but otherwise it's the best daddy mobile money can buy.

My 911 is for sh!ts and giggles. The 911 fits and drives like a glove.

Jeff
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      05-11-2014, 08:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
Of course you're right. But I'm not a track guy or a boy racer. I'm not looking for a toy. But quite honestly, my S4 is more fun to drive than my M5 was. That was a surprise and disappointment.

I describe the M5 as a really fast, well-handling 7 Series. And I don't think that's what an M5 ever used to be.

btw, I'm not looking to be a contrarian. No one loves BMWs more than I do. This one just wasn't right for me.
I'll have too disagree with you there. I've owned an S4 and to me M5 is much more engaging. M5 in MDM and sport plus is plain awesome for a large luxury sedan. S4 felt very pedestrian to me.
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      05-11-2014, 08:51 PM   #9
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You'll have fun with the 991. The next M5 should be under 4,000lbs. Hope to see you back in like 4 or 5 years.
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      05-11-2014, 09:08 PM   #10
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Sorry I keep forgetting is this a M5 or Porsche forum

Joking I may end up with another Porsche next probably GT3 however the difference is if so I will need 2 cars to replace the M5 IMHO there is not a single car that can do everything it does
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      05-12-2014, 12:02 AM   #11
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I absolutely love my M5. Is it a big car, sure. But at the time, thats why I bought it. I thought I wanted something with extra room, luxury, huge power, and sex appeal. My problem is simular to many of you. I love variety!!! Still love the M5, just don't have room for any more cars, so it has to go.

So, the M5 is for sale, and I have dibs on a new White 911 TTS. Not sure how the deals going to work, but if I can get out of the M5 without getting killed, I'm picking up the Porsche. It's been 25 years since my last 911, which amazing enough was also white.
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      05-12-2014, 12:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
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M5 in MDM and sport plus is plain awesome for a large luxury sedan.
+1
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      05-12-2014, 03:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
Of course you're right. But I'm not a track guy or a boy racer. I'm not looking for a toy. But quite honestly, my S4 is more fun to drive than my M5 was. That was a surprise and disappointment.

I describe the M5 as a really fast, well-handling 7 Series. And I don't think that's what an M5 ever used to be.

btw, I'm not looking to be a contrarian. No one loves BMWs more than I do. This one just wasn't right for me.
I respect your opinion
But I test drove S4 and S6 and S5 and I liked all of them but I would never dare even compare them to M5 as it is in another league with S6 with a tune and lowering springs coming close to M5 but S6 !! That was apples to Oranges !! But if nimble = Fun in your book - then I may understand a bit... But when I test drove the S4 I was underwhelmed in a very strange way because I read many reviews like yours about how much fun it was to drive it... Nimble it was but fun to me means a lot more than just Small Size!!
POWER -

RS7 is probably the closest thing Audi has to compete with M5 but design is Polarizing but definitely an admirable machine and I like the RS5 a lot too but waiting for its version with working sunroof and Biturbo Engine -

But I respect your opinion completely and trust your experience too and that ascertain how different people's tastes can be -

I wish I could be happy with S4 - my bank account would be happier -
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      05-12-2014, 06:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpiguy View Post
I absolutely love my M5. Is it a big car, sure. But at the time, thats why I bought it. I thought I wanted something with extra room, luxury, huge power, and sex appeal. My problem is simular to many of you. I love variety!!! Still love the M5, just don't have room for any more cars, so it has to go.

So, the M5 is for sale, and I have dibs on a new White 911 TTS. Not sure how the deals going to work, but if I can get out of the M5 without getting killed, I'm picking up the Porsche. It's been 25 years since my last 911, which amazing enough was also white.
Wow Arnie, you came out of nowhere. Haven't chatted with you since you got those HREs :-)

Do you still enjoy the Italia? I am giving serious thought to trading my TTS for a Spider (August delivery). We have the wife's F12 M6 and my F 150 for a DD so it could be a good fit.

-Mike
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      05-12-2014, 07:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
I respect your opinion
But I test drove S4 and S6 and S5 and I liked all of them but I would never dare even compare them to M5 as it is in another league with S6 with a tune and lowering springs coming close to M5 but S6 !! That was apples to Oranges !! But if nimble = Fun in your book - then I may understand a bit... But when I test drove the S4 I was underwhelmed in a very strange way because I read many reviews like yours about how much fun it was to drive it... Nimble it was but fun to me means a lot more than just Small Size!!
POWER -

RS7 is probably the closest thing Audi has to compete with M5 but design is Polarizing but definitely an admirable machine and I like the RS5 a lot too but waiting for its version with working sunroof and Biturbo Engine -

But I respect your opinion completely and trust your experience too and that ascertain how different people's tastes can be -

I wish I could be happy with S4 - my bank account would be happier -
I appreciate your sentiment. And I don't think that the S4 (or S6 or S7) is in the same league as the M5 (as you say, maybe the RS7), but it is the nimbleness of the S4 that I absolutely love. And that's not just a matter of size. It's power-to-weight, it's the Audi's sport diff, it's a lot of things. I'm going to really miss the luxury and comfort of the M5. But from my perspective only, an M5 should be more than "luxury and comfort".
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      05-12-2014, 08:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
I appreciate your sentiment. And I don't think that the S4 (or S6 or S7) is in the same league as the M5 (as you say, maybe the RS7), but it is the nimbleness of the S4 that I absolutely love. And that's not just a matter of size. It's power-to-weight, it's the Audi's sport diff, it's a lot of things. I'm going to really miss the luxury and comfort of the M5. But from my perspective only, an M5 should be more than "luxury and comfort".
It is - In the eye of the beholder
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      05-12-2014, 09:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Wow Arnie, you came out of nowhere. Haven't chatted with you since you got those HREs :-)

Do you still enjoy the Italia? I am giving serious thought to trading my TTS for a Spider (August delivery). We have the wife's F12 M6 and my F 150 for a DD so it could be a good fit.

-Mike
HI Mike:

I don't make too many comments, but I do still read the boards. Yes, love the 458. Still in a different league IMO! Thinking of picking up a 911 TTS that will hit the dealer this week. I figure the 458, M3, TTS, and new X5 would be a great garage, for now
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      05-12-2014, 10:43 AM   #18
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This has been a great exchange of opinion based on experience and preference. I thoroughly enjoyed everyone's comments. I agree, I love my M5 but there is no getting around it's weight. I do wish it was lighter too but I knew what I was buying, and what purposes I intended it for. I am content.
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      05-12-2014, 10:47 AM   #19
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@cpiguy

So did you test drive the TT-S or are you just pulling the trigger?
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      05-12-2014, 10:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpiguy View Post
HI Mike:

I don't make too many comments, but I do still read the boards. Yes, love the 458. Still in a different league IMO! Thinking of picking up a 911 TTS that will hit the dealer this week. I figure the 458, M3, TTS, and new X5 would be a great garage, for now
Wondering if I will not like having the TTS along with the 458 if I pull the trigger. I leased the damn M6 for my wife (really not sure why) so I will be taking quite a beating if I ditch it instead of the TTS. Your thoughts?
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      05-12-2014, 11:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
I appreciate your sentiment. And I don't think that the S4 (or S6 or S7) is in the same league as the M5 (as you say, maybe the RS7), but it is the nimbleness of the S4 that I absolutely love. And that's not just a matter of size. It's power-to-weight, it's the Audi's sport diff, it's a lot of things. I'm going to really miss the luxury and comfort of the M5. But from my perspective only, an M5 should be more than "luxury and comfort".
The entire challenge that we see MANY people having now with the M5 is really simple. In marketing, we call it being "in the center of the barbell". It is when your product is neither polarized left or right and it is a mix of "everything" to try to suit a wider audience. Problem is that when you are not focused on one one segment vs the other (for the M5 arguments sake they are "Sporty" and "comfort") you confuse customers and you get discontent, sometimes to small and often to large degrees. It is FINE to go for "sporty" and add a little bit of luxury or vice-versa. Incidentally this is why the 991 is so great. It is sporty with a touch of luxury, thus it attracts a wider range than the 997 that had no luxury. Yes, there will be discontentment but to a much smaller degree because deviation from the sporty concept is not so great. The M5 has gone too far towards the middle in an attempt to satisfy everyone. Some people will be fine with it-in fact, MANY will. But there is a lot of chatter amongst consumers (and a lot of brand switching as evidenced on this board alone) due to the fact that luxury buyers aren't getting TOTAL luxury. They are getting a LOT of sport mixed in and sporty buyers are getting a LOT of luxury and added weight (the chief complaint voiced repeatedly on here). It doesn't make the car bad or good. It makes it confusing and causes less interest and second-guessing after the purchase.
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      05-12-2014, 11:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
The entire challenge that we see MANY people having now with the M5 is really simple. In marketing, we call it being "in the center of the barbell". It is when your product is neither polarized left or right and it is a mix of "everything" to try to suit a wider audience. Problem is that when you are not focused on one one segment vs the other (for the M5 arguments sake they are "Sporty" and "comfort") you confuse customers and you get discontent, sometimes to small and often to large degrees. It if FINE to go for "sporty" and add a little bit of luxury or vice-versa. Incidentally his is why the 991 is so great. It is sporty with a touch of luxury, this it attracts a wider range than the 997 that had no luxury. Yes, there will be discontentment but to a much smaller degree because deviation form the sporty concept is not so great. The M5 has gone too far towards the middle in an attempt to satisfy everyone. Some people will be fine with it-in fact, MANY will. But there is a lot of chatter amongst consumers (and a lot of brand switching as evidenced on this board alone) due to the fact that luxury buyers aren't getting TOTAL luxury. They are getting a LOT of sport mixed in and sporty buyers are getting a LOT of luxury and added weight (the chief complaint voiced repeatedly on here). It doesn't make the car bad or good. It makes it confusing and causes less interest and second-guessing after the purchase.
I would disagree. I think there is a market "in the center" as well as to either end of the spectrum. In fact, that is where the M5 came from in the first place.
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