Porsche's don't lease well

[gmfive]

Went looking for a Cayenne GTS for the wife, 10k/36mo and leasing at $1.6k/mo, wow! Other buyers were there to do all-cash deals. The Cayenne GTS handles well, stays composed but hated the cheap plasticky bits on the dash and other surfaces. Might as well just wait for the X5M!

[soooma]

What's MSRP?
I believe BMW leases too well and that's the problem once out of BMW you think you can get a lease close to it that is not BMW! But very hard to -

[gmfive]

Originally Posted by soooma

What's MSRP?

Think it was 97k-ish

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by gmfive

Went looking for a Cayenne GTS for the wife, 10k/36mo and leasing at $1.6k/mo, wow! Other buyers were there to do all-cash deals. The Cayenne GTS handles well, stays composed but hated the cheap plasticky bits on the dash and other surfaces. Might as well just wait for the X5M!

Porsche's leasing program is horrible! The other day a friend of mine was looking for Boxster S; 80k MSRP, 10k/36 months for $1250 per month + tax!

[WCH]

Too true. The other factor right now with the GTS is that there is no 2015 Cayenne GTS so the remaining 2014s are not going for good deals.

[Pazzo009]

It depends on the car and numbers are at the time. I disagree with what you are saying overall. I leased a 2013 911S last year. Msrp was $125,000. Heres my deal. 7500 miles per year, 27 months. $10k down....$1142 per month. I did get an additional $4500 off at the time on conquest money because I also lease the M5. I'm assuming the numbers have changed since then. I believe the residual at the time was 73% hence also why I got such a good deal. I'm paying more for my M5 and it's msrp was $108,000, but the residual at the time was 54% I think.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by aculeg87

It depends on the car and numbers are at the time. I disagree with what you are saying overall. I leased a 2013 911S last year. Msrp was $125,000. Heres my deal. 7500 miles per year, 27 months. $10k down....$1142 per month. I did get an additional $4500 off at the time on conquest money because I also lease the M5. I'm assuming the numbers have changed since then. I believe the residual at the time was 73% hence also why I got such a good deal. I'm paying more for my M5 and it's msrp was $108,000, but the residual at the time was 54% I think.

$10,000 down amounts to $370 per month on a 27 month lease. Don't know what you put down for the M5 so it's hard to compare.

We're paying about the same as the OP was quoted for a Cayenne GTS but the MSRP on ours was $103K. So I agree with the "depends on the car and numbers at the time" but in general BMW lease numbers tend to be better than most.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aculeg87

It depends on the car and numbers are at the time. I disagree with what you are saying overall. I leased a 2013 911S last year. Msrp was $125,000. Heres my deal. 7500 miles per year, 27 months. $10k down....$1142 per month. I did get an additional $4500 off at the time on conquest money because I also lease the M5. I'm assuming the numbers have changed since then. I believe the residual at the time was 73% hence also why I got such a good deal. I'm paying more for my M5 and it's msrp was $108,000, but the residual at the time was 54% I think.

I know you disagree! you always disagree with anything that has negative impact about Porsche lol. All P-cars are over priced. The deal is horrible because the Money Factor is too high and the amount of discount is too low. The residual is good but not as good as you mentioned!! You compared the M5 lease payment with 911S lease payment and (as usual) made an unfair comparison
27 months lease, 7500 miles per year and 73% residual (after 27 months) is different from 36 month lease, 10000 miles per year and then what is the residual after 36 months ?? I doubt it's more then 60%

On the other hand you didn't mention the mileage per year you have on your M5 lease!!! The current lease of M5 is 61-62% residual (10K) and I don't know why your residual is 54%!! is it for 15k per year?

Here is the August deal for M5:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1019711

And you always can find a good deal with 10-20% off MSRP for M5

[Vic55]

too much supposition here.... and we can NOT compare different cars and brands since its not apples. What one can do is compare two different banks to the same car with the same terms. Then we can say the car doesn't lease well due to residualization plus bank money factors.

As for this car we are missing net cap cost, credit scoring, terms/miles, mrm hit? What else?

Porsche drives their Cayenne residuals down and fluffs up their Carrera residuals. Then they may throw in factory to dealer (trunk) or factory to customer cash depending on the allocation/supply levels. Their top tier money factor is .00200 or about 4.80%. If one is top tier on retail- APR can be had around 1.49 currently with proper dealer bank selection and structure. So they can lock you in with a high residual so you cant trade in early and make MF dollars. But to say overall that they don't lease well is not exactly true. If you keep your car to term then a higher residual will play a larger role than money factor especially on lower priced cars. The Cayenne GTS is their niche model in the line and these types generally carry lower residuals at PFS vs your std Cayenne model.

Outside of all this- its very hard to lease a Cayenne with anyone but PFS. US Bank is the other non major OEM lessor and they have a cap on dollars and a GTS is well over the cap.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

... If you keep your car to term then a higher residual will play a larger role than money factor especially on lower priced cars....

Vic, with respect to all you said, it's not always solid statement to claim that higher residual will play the role! Still it depends on the MF, since the rent fee is sometimes a significant portion of the monthly payment and the higher residual also increase the rent fee as well because the rent fee is: MF*(Residual + Sales price).
Let me do some calculations to make it more clear.
The total lease payment (ie for 36 months lease) is the summation of depreciation fee plus rent fee can be found here:
Total lease payment = (Sales price - Residual) + 36*MF*(Residual + Sales price)
For a 100K car, 60% residual, 0.00130 MF (I consider BMW M5 to have real numbers) the total lease payment is $47488.
For a 100K car, 64% residual, 0.00200 MF (this time I consider P-Car) the total lease payment is $47808. Less depreciation due to higher residual, but more rent fee due to higher MF. As you can see even 4% more residual does not help to reduce the monthly payment because of high MF. This is exactly the way Porsche dealers make money! I understand your point about different banks and different terms, but my point as a person who wants to get a car (BMW or P-car) is to find a good deal and I don't care how they want to run their business. As an example, last year when I was going to get my M6, I visited the New port Porsche (it was on my way to Sterling) to see the 911TTS. They did not have any in their inventory at that time, but I saw a loaded 911S in their show room; So just for my curiosity I asked about the numbers! I really don't remember the residual, but I remember the MF was 0.00225! The monthly payment of that car with almost the same MSRP of my M6 was about $400 more than what I was supposed to pay for my M6 before the large discount I got! Having said that, and refer to my original quote about the big discount, what I'm paying now, is much less than what I was supposed to pay for that car with the same MSRP!!!!

[avlnch]

Porsche FS isn't too bad. I've had a good experience flipping at end of lease as well.

[gsc]

991 Turbo S leases for almost $3.2k out here in NYC, Crazy!

[gmfive]

My favorite p-car is the 918 Spyder but it is way beyond my reach. The 911's are nice but not for me. The fastest 911 I've driven was my buddy's rocketship RUF rt12 before he sold it off.. that thing was amazing!! They're fabulous handling cars but the egg shaped cabin is not for me.. just personal choice. There's something to be said about the powerful presence and stance of the M5!!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Vic, with respect to all you said, it's not always solid statement to claim that higher residual will play the role! Still it depends on the MF, since the rent fee is sometimes a significant portion of the monthly payment and the higher residual also increase the rent fee as well because the rent fee is: MF*(Residual + Sales price).
Let me do some calculations to make it more clear.
The total lease payment (ie for 36 months lease) is the summation of depreciation fee plus rent fee can be found here:
Total lease payment = (Sales price - Residual) + 36*MF*(Residual + Sales price)
For a 100K car, 60% residual, 0.00130 MF (I consider BMW M5 to have real numbers) the total lease payment is $47488.
For a 100K car, 64% residual, 0.00200 MF (this time I consider P-Car) the total lease payment is $47808. Less depreciation due to higher residual, but more rent fee due to higher MF. As you can see even 4% more residual does not help to reduce the monthly payment because of high MF. This is exactly the way Porsche dealers make money! I understand your point about different banks and different terms, but my point as a person who wants to get a car (BMW or P-car) is to find a good deal and I don't care how they want to run their business. As an example, last year when I was going to get my M6, I visited the New port Porsche (it was on my way to Sterling) to see the 911TTS. They did not have any in their inventory at that time, but I saw a loaded 911S in their show room; So just for my curiosity I asked about the numbers! I really don't remember the residual, but I remember the MF was 0.00225! The monthly payment of that car with almost the same MSRP of my M6 was about $400 more than what I was supposed to pay for my M6 before the large discount I got! Having said that, and refer to my original quote about the big discount, what I'm paying now, is much less than what I was supposed to pay for that car with the same MSRP!!!!

This has nothing to do with "how Porsche dealers make money". It is in fact, as Vic stated, about the different banks.

BMWFS notoriously inflates residuals. Trust me, my F12 cab will not be worth the residual value at the end. Will walk away from it for sure.

[stealth.pilot]

I'm not a Porsche fanboy nor am I anti Porsche.

My sense having looked at these products is that the 991 C2 and C4 leases are excellent. Super high residuals. The 991S models also have pretty good leases - not amazingly cheap like BMWs but fairly priced (which to me means it is slightly cheaper to buy than lease if you negotiate well and sell well).

The Panamera and Cayenne have terrible leases especially for the GTS and Turbo models. These cars also drop in value in rapidly and have horrible trade in value so the low residual is somewhat reflective of reality and the fact that's these vehicles are overpriced to start with.

BMWs also depreciate pretty poorly but in their case it is more to do with the fact that they excessively subsidize their leases.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I'm not a Porsche fanboy nor am I anti Porsche.

My sense having looked at these products is that the 991 C2 and C4 leases are excellent. Super high residuals. The 991S models also have pretty good leases - not amazingly cheap like BMWs but fairly priced (which to me means it is slightly cheaper to buy than lease if you negotiate well and sell well).

The Panamera and Cayenne have terrible leases especially for the GTS and Turbo models. These cars also drop in value in rapidly and have horrible trade in value so the low residual is somewhat reflective of reality and the fact that's these vehicles are overpriced to start with.

BMWs also depreciate pretty poorly but in their case it is more to do with the fact that they excessively subsidize their leases.

I feel the P car is coming home soon Stealth.